All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Lydia: Welcome to the All-In recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content so far, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify. Stay tuned for our weekly episodes.
I'm your host, Lydia, and this week, we have Michael Abdul, a FinTech recruiter who's just started his own firm, Volition. Welcome to the show, Michael.
Michael: Thank you, Lydia. It's an absolute pleasure to be here.
6 Months Turned Into 12 Years
Lydia: So, Michael, what's kept you in the recruiting space?
Michael: I think it is the big element of luck that goes into people's careers. That's the reason that I've stayed around. Like most recruiters, they fell into it after university because I actually took my first job with the intention of doing it for about six months and then traveling and getting what I considered a real job. So, most of my friends from university went into the Big Four consulting or investment companies. I thought, “I'll do that for six months, get some money, and then get a real graduate scheme job.” 12 years later, I'm still here.
Lydia: That’s a long six months.
Michael: It is, and I genuinely love it. But I think that’s the main thing. That’s why I’m still here and I love the role. In 2012, I was hired by a company called Aston Carter, which was an amazingly run business. It had a great culture and was a lot of fun. We were very good. They were the top supplier to the majority of the tier-one banks in London at the time. As a 21-year-old graduate, I sat down at one of the busiest desks during peak time for the contract organization.
A few months after I started, all the banks had to hire hundreds of contractors to remediate the mis-selling of interest rate swaps. Pure luck—I was super busy and had early success. Many recruiters don’t experience that level of success, so I felt extremely fortunate. It made me think, “I’m definitely not going to go traveling now.” I was doing well financially and having more fun than my friends who had ‘real’ jobs in the Big Four, the London Stock Exchange, and investment companies. I stayed there for three and a half years, having loads of fun. Eventually, they wanted me to manage a team, but I just wanted to keep having fun.
My goal was to move abroad. I didn’t care where, as long as I could live in another country. So, I ended up moving to New York, which was amazing and fun. I joined with one of my best friends from the company and spent two and a half years there. New York was more challenging, unlike London, where jobs were everywhere and business development was easy. In New York, I was given a phone and told to build a market and sign large banking institutions. The first year was tough, with some hardships. But by the end of my two and a half years in New York, I was seeing good success. However, I realized that the sales-heavy, client-heavy role wasn’t for me. I enjoyed hands-on work—sourcing candidates and finding people. Despite that, I’ve had a great time in recruitment. I absolutely love it.
What keeps me here today, still doing it and working with Volition, is the multifaceted nature of recruitment. I get the buzz of signing new clients and making placements—it’s addictive. Plus, I get to meet and speak with some of the smartest people on the planet every day.
Lydia: And that so-called real job, has translated to a company (Volition) for you. How old is it now?
Michael: 16 months. So, we started it in January 2023 and we've had really good success. I think the first couple of quarters were hard. I had non-compete clauses with some of my clients. In FinTech, there was the Silicon Valley Bank collapse, the credit Swiss collapse, and funding was drying up. Everyone knows that last year was quite a tough year, so there was immediate hardship.
But then from probably August or September, we've been really busy. I think we've really aligned our value proposition. I think the market understands that we can help where we're so focused on just kind of capital markets vendors. So, it's going from strength to strength and we hope to have a little bit more growth in terms of people. Getting a few more people on board in the not-too-distant future, because we've got so much demand now which is great.
Lydia: 16 months, and your focus is on FinTech specifically?
Michael: Yes, so just capital markets and technology companies that sell tech or data to investment banks and asset managers. It's a very small subset of financial services that actually when you get into it like I've got a market map of about 450 companies that sell this tech or data to these institutions, and those are just the ones that have a presence in the UK and globally, there are 1000s.
There are more and more springing up all the time. So, it's a constantly changing market segment. Whereas, what I was doing before with the investment banks, the top 30 investment banks, the top 30 investment banks every year, they don't change too often.
This is what I'm really enjoying. I enjoy this market. It's good fun.
Keeping Up with The Changes in the FinTech Industry
Lydia: How do you keep up with the changes that are happening in this industry and look out for the kind of talent that you're supposed to get?
Michael: We've got a market map that we are religious about. Anytime you see a new company, we're on the website. We're categorizing them by use case and user so that when we go to actually source talent, not only do we know we're not generic in our outreach approach, it's targeted.
So that the candidates that we're approaching are like an exact drop-and-drag fit for our clients. It's just staying on top of the market maps and then keeping an eye out for all the different changes in the companies that are out there.
Lydia: Michael, when it comes to finding the perfect candidate or finding the perfect talent to suit the needs of the company, it might be a bit of a unicorn or a purple squirrel. That's pretty tough and if it happens, it's great.
But have there been instances in which you're looking for that particular rare talent, but you can't find them and then you find several other candidates with transferable skills? There'd be an opportunity to look at people with adjacent skills that could be transferred to a specific role in FinTech.
Michael: Yes, I think so. To begin with, we’re always trying to find that purple spirit—the person who’s excelled in the exact role at a competitor and wants to make the move. But in this market, as I mentioned, there are 450 companies out there.
However, when you narrow it down to specific use cases and client segments, there might only be 10 or 15 relevant ones. If you’ve already approached everyone doing that exact role in those companies and they’re not interested, then you have to broaden your search. Being specialized in this vendor community allows me to give advice to clients. For instance, I can say, “Here are the 14 people doing this in London, but none of them are available or within budget. How about considering this alternative?”
Recently, we’ve encountered partnership roles—directors in these companies. Typically, there’s only one of them at each firm, whereas they might have a 10 to 15-person sales team. For example, “I’ve approached all these partnership candidates. Would you consider individuals who handle sales for 80% of their role but also have a 20% focus on partnerships?” The client responded positively, saying they’d be open to that. So being deeply ingrained in the market helps us understand where the wiggle room lies.
Using Recruitment Tech to Track, Collate, and Run Analytics
Lydia: Going back to your firm Volition, you started it and it's been running for 16 months. How does data and technology, or rather the use of data, really empower or help your firm to grow at the scale it's growing?
Michael: For sure. I’ve been in recruitment since 2012, and even in those 12 years, technology and data have changed vastly. Now, if you think about it, LinkedIn is so prominent that recruiters live in the age of perfect information. You can go on LinkedIn, and the recruiter across the road has access to the same candidates. Back when I first started, it was all about who’s in your database and who you have access to as an agency that your competitors don’t. But that’s basically gone now. So, being hyper-focused on a specific segment really helps because we’re always in touch with our particular candidates. Those bigger agencies with access to millions of different candidates and working across various technology ecosystems and client types, just aren’t as connected to those candidates or as well-known in those markets.
Another impact of data is the proliferation of small recruitment agencies like Volition. Ten years ago, you needed to be part of a big agency to have the terms in place for massive institutions. Now, everything is on LinkedIn and other job boards like Indeed. Data has empowered good senior recruiters to start their own companies more and more. Maybe it’s just my age (early 30s), but I’ve seen whole swathes of people do this recently, and I think it’s a positive trend.
Regarding data, it’s about tracking and analyzing everything you do. Technology has been great for that. Nowadays, all the systems we have can track, collate, and run analytics on who we’re reaching out to and what we’re doing. You can even do this with LinkedIn projects.
Lydia: Do you have your systems in place already in terms of technologies such as ATS and CRM, as you were talking about earlier?
Michael: Yes. So, we work with you guys at Manatal and the key reason I selected Manatal, something that has changed so much, is how intuitive the UI is. The UI is amazing and the Kanban board - drag and drop and single click to do things is phenomenal versus what I started with. It saves me so much time. I can track all of my processes through just drag and drop which is amazing.
So, I've set Manatal up as my ATS and CRM and I’m very happy with you guys. I think it's a great piece of technology. The product teams are good. I've put forward a couple of our product enhancements and a few bits and pieces and the super responsive sort of Source Whale for sequencing or follow-ups. That's a lifesaver that allows me to contact someone once and have a couple of follow-ups go out to them. Most people don't respond until the second or third touch point. So, I really enjoyed that. Then obviously, everyone's on LinkedIn. I have various recruiters who are mainly relying on LinkedIn, which I would like to cut down if possible, but it is the number one tool at the moment.
Lydia: So, all this technology allows you to manage your own firm and also be super hands-on with recruiting. It's at this point where the company is if I'm not mistaken.
Michael: Yes, exactly that. So, Volition is just Jack Bowen and I. We're both very hands-on. We have our clients that come to us for their needs, and it is us to recruit on it. I had a client actually, just a few weeks ago say, “Oh, you've outsourced that, where you've hired juniors to do the recruiting part. And I was like, “No, I actually think that the kind of USP of working with Volition is that, regardless of the mandate you're going to have someone who's got over 10 years of experience recruiting finance and FinTech professionals from Jack or I.” We don't really have any plans to change that. But yes, the technology that we have set up allows us to be hands-on to track everything that we're doing, whilst not spending hours a day doing boring administrative tasks.
Navigating the Vast Sea of FinTech Recruiting
Lydia: In terms of positioning yourself or a new company, or rather, as you mentioned, a small recruiting firm against bigger and more established players. How do you navigate that kind of competitive landscape when it comes to FinTech recruiting?
Michael: There are five or six other companies in London that I know of and I respect all of them. I think they're all pretty good brands. I'd like to think they know us, although we're definitely the smallest and we're trying to get in there. We don't butt heads too much because it's not like you're bumping into them and you're competing with them on every single job.
I was very fortunate because I've done recruitment for so long that I've got a lot of relationships that are decades. So, we have a lot of exclusive jobs and all that kind of thing and we're not constantly stepping on each other's toes. I think a lot of the FinTech vendor ecosystem has historically been serviced by these kinds of big agencies like Aston Carter that don't have a niche specialism and it is displacing those and improving value over and above these big agencies that work with loads of banks and hedge funds and then also FinTechs, that's generally quite easy.
I think from the first intro scoping call with clients, I can get enough into the conversation to show that I know this market and that I can add value to them over and above these larger companies, and if I am competing against one of the five or six other firms that are kind of specialists in this market, then, I have to compete, I have to work hard, and I have to do well on the role. That's it, really.
Build Relationships Strategically to Succeed in the Recruitment Industry
Lydia: So, you've had an in-depth look at what it takes to be a successful recruiter in the FinTech scene, create a niche, and make sure that you are a specialist in a specific area. What advice would you give someone who wants to start out in this space today, and maybe even someone who's had the experience for a few years and wants to start their own business?
Michael: That’s a really good question. In the last 5-10 years, I’ve interviewed 300 or 400 trainee-level recruiters, I’d say. This topic comes up frequently during interviews.
The number one thing I believe the recruitment industry gets wrong is how it emphasizes commissions and targets. They often create the impression that everyone can make crazy money in their first year. Unfortunately, this misleads many people to enter the field for the wrong reasons. Recruitment, as evidenced by my 12 years of experience, is a long-term career. Success doesn’t come overnight; it requires building relationships strategically. These relationships involve give and take—you might need something from someone, and they’ll need something from you.
Junior recruiters often underestimate the job’s complexity. Some think it’s easy, especially if they have strong academic backgrounds. However, after five or six months, they realize the hard work involved. My advice to them is that becoming proficient at this job takes years. If you’re looking for quick success or an easy path that isn’t labor-intensive, consider other options.
Now, let’s talk about the recruitment agency landscape. There’s a common statistic that there are 40,000 recruitment agencies in the UK. While I don’t know the exact number, if you’re a junior, it’s crucial to choose agencies with a track record of promoting juniors and helping them succeed. Many companies hire numerous trainees, fully aware that not all will last or thrive during training or probation.
So, being able to pick companies that genuinely nurture talent is crucial. Many junior recruiters wonder about structured learning and development within their job structure. However, what matters most is understanding who your hiring manager will be at the recruitment agency. Investigate their track record of promoting juniors and achieving successful billings. Armed with this information, you can make informed choices.
When I was interviewing for recruitment roles, I spoke with about 15 different firms. At the time, I didn’t fully grasp which ones would provide the most support or have leaders who could guide me effectively. So, my decision was based on personal rapport rather than strategic considerations.
Now, let’s discuss starting your own company. The key factor, as I alluded to earlier, is having a niche and a compelling value proposition. Many people enter the field and simply declare themselves as ‘technology recruiters.’ However, technology encompasses thousands of different types, skill sets, and job titles. When speaking with engineering managers or CTOs, it’s essential to dive into the details. Picking too broad a field can hinder your effectiveness.
Consider working smart. If you focus on a specific niche, the candidates you generate for one job can often be repurposed for similar roles later. This approach streamlines your sourcing efforts. In contrast, some recruiters constantly juggle different skill sets and roles, only to forget about candidates once a job is filled.
For those starting out, having a niche and a clear value proposition is critical. If you’re exceptionally ambitious—more so than I am with Volition—define your own niche and vertical. Map out additional growth areas and assign team members to manage them. While your company can eventually expand, initially, focus on demonstrating expertise to clients and quickly providing valuable insights during conversations.
Lydia: Well, thank you, Mike. Thanks so much for these insights and the valuable anecdotes that have come from your experiences and best of luck with volition. Before we end, drop us your contact details or maybe a website that somebody can check out Volition after this show.
Michael: Thanks, Lydia. Yes, sure. It's www.volition.work, and my email address is mike@volition.work.
Lydia: We have been in conversation with Michael Abdul, a FinTech recruiter and Founder of Volition. Thank you for joining us, and remember to subscribe. Stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.
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