EP81: Arete Executive - How to Recognize Potential Beyond Resumes

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

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This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes. I’m your host, Lydia. Joining us today is Richard Triggs of Arete Executive Search. Welcome to the show, Richard. Thanks for joining us.

Richard: It is an absolute pleasure to be here. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Arete - Fulfillment of One’s Full Potential

Lydia: So, what's the mission behind Arete, Richard? How did you arrive at this name? Maybe [tell us] a little bit about what it means or what it means to you.

Richard: Well, I’d like to pretend that when we started, we had a mission. But the reality is that my wife at the time and I had both been working in the recruitment industry. We were both getting very frustrated working for other people. It got to the point where it was almost like if we don’t do it ourselves, we have to stop blaming or complaining about our circumstances because of the businesses we’re working in.

So it was almost like, let’s just start something, and let’s really prove to ourselves that we can create, maintain, and build a business. At the time, when we were typing into Google - words like success, achievement, and fulfillment. I didn’t want to call the business ‘Richard Triggs’ or ‘Triggs Recruitment’ because I never wanted it to be about me.

Then this word popped up: Arete. Arete is a Greek word that means the fulfillment of one’s full potential. When it was used by Homer, the Greek author of the Odyssey and the Iliad, it was where heroes gathered to realize their full potential. We thought, well, that’s a fantastic word for us. We certainly want our employment clients to achieve their full potential, we want our candidates to achieve their full potential, and we want to achieve it for ourselves as well. And that became our mission.

Building Trust Through Consultative Recruitment

Lydia: I also understand that Arete uses a performance-based hiring methodology. So, how do you maintain that competitive edge, and what differentiates your approach from others maybe?

Richard: Performance-Based Hiring Methodology was developed by an American named Lou Adler. I was very fortunate, probably close to 20 years ago, to have some training with Lou. He’s written a fantastic book called ‘Hire with Your Head.’ The idea of performance-based hiring is simple; you want to hire people who’ve done it before, done it well, and are motivated to do it again. It’s a very specific recruitment methodology that, in my opinion, represents the world’s best practice for recruiting—not just at an executive level, but across all roles. However, it’s time-consuming and requires recruiters to be more professional, and consultative, and truly act as trusted advisers.

So, how does it give us a competitive advantage? By using this methodology, we’re far more successful in delivering results. Our clients genuinely appreciate the fact that we are truly trusted advisors, and as a result, we get a lot of repeat business—something that’s truly awesome. Many recruiters pay lip service to the idea that “today’s candidate is tomorrow’s client.” But while they say that, they often treat candidates like commodities, failing to invest in them.

Our philosophy has always been different. We treat our candidates with respect, and we go back to the core principle of Arete. When our candidates land their next role—even if they haven’t been placed by us—they’re likely to say, “Well, Richard really offered me some great advice during my job search.” Consequently, when they’re in a position to recruit for their own vacancies, they turn to Arete.

One of the ways we reinforce this approach is through education. In 2015, I wrote a book called ‘Uncover the Hidden Job Market,’ which aimed at helping executives and board directors manage their job search. And that book, I’ve probably given away or sold over 15,000 copies of it. So again, a competitive advantage lies in giving people a book and other materials to help them in their job search. If you’re happy and helpful, the universe looks after you. That’s really my philosophy.

Embracing Virtual Relationships and Meeting the Demand

Lydia: Indeed. The book came out in 2015 and since then, we've seen so many different changes, multiple disruptions. Let's just go back to 2019 until now. So, there have been all these disruptions that come in from multiple points of economic, whether it's socioeconomic or whether it's health [related], we’re now in post-pandemic, how has the recruitment landscape changed, in your view recently?

Richard: Well, I think that obviously, one of the most significant changes was LinkedIn. Now, LinkedIn Recruiter is used by both third-party and internal recruiters. It has absolutely changed the way that we can go about searching and can deliver fantastic results for our clients. So, for example, in the global search world, there are probably five main organizations: Spencer’s Stuart, Heidrick & Struggles, Russell Reynolds, Egon Zehnder, and Korn Ferry. Traditionally, these firms were charging upwards of 30% to deliver an assignment, taking 12 weeks to provide a shortlist. However, LinkedIn coming in has completely disrupted that market. And I’d like to think that our chief executive has been right at the forefront of that.

To give you an example, we have a product called our Shortlist Solution, where we will deliver a fully interviewed shortlist within 20 working days. We hand it over to the client, and they close out the balance of the process. And we do that for a flat fee of $9,500. Now, you’d never have seen a solution like that pre-LinkedIn Recruiter. As LinkedIn has become a more useful tool, one of the other major changes is that, especially post-COVID, prior to COVID, the vast majority of our clients were very local. They would want to meet me, shake my hand, and have a coffee. Geographically, you would predominantly recruit where you were. Well, now, of course, post-COVID or even during COVID, people are much more comfortable having a Zoom or a Teams-based relationship, just like you and I are right now.

So, to give you an example, during COVID and now, we are headhunting Americans for jobs in America. And yet, we’re based in Brisbane, on the other side of the world, and we’re recruiting for clients that I’ve never met and probably will never meet. So again, both of those things have massively changed from the recruiter’s perspective.

From the employer’s perspective, I think one of the biggest changes has been that candidates expect much greater work-life flexibility now. And whereas in the past, again, pre-COVID, a candidate might say, “Oh, if I could work one day from home a fortnight, that would be so awesome. Do you think the employer would allow me to do that?”

There are candidates saying, “Well if I can’t work three days a week from home, I’m not interested in the job.” So it’s forcing employers to become much more flexible in terms of the way they’re engaging people. Because if they don’t, then they will just miss out.

Lydia: So, Richard, you mentioned earlier that you maintain a 20-day delivery promise to the client. How do you maintain that kind of delivering service standard? Looking at all the different expectations from candidates and also in terms of consulting, or playing that consultative role for the client, does that shorten the client service delivery time?

Richard: Well, there are a few points in that. I think one of the things in the recruiting industry, obviously, as you’d be aware, is that there are recruiters who work contingently. In other words, they’re only paid upon successful placement. They’re recruited to work on a retained basis, which means that they are paid as proper professionals to do the necessary work to achieve the desired outcome.

Now, you could never do what we do as contingent recruiters because they know that they may only place one in five jobs they’re working on. Whereas in our business, we only work on a retainer basis. So, that means that my consultants, or what I call associate partners, can work a much smaller number of jobs because they know they’re getting paid for every assignment. I have a team, and that team may only be working on between, say, four and six jobs at any one time.

And again, using technology, we find that by working hard and working intelligently and efficiently, we can consistently hit the target of shortlist delivery in 20 days. Now, if the client then takes time to run the back end of the recruitment process, that’s up to them. And that’s not to say we only deliver this solution; we also run full-service assignments. For example, we might be recruiting a CEO or a very senior leader, and we will run a traditional recruitment retain process: one-third engagement of our fee, one-third on the shortlist, and the balance on placement. These typically take longer, but we charge a lot more for those.

The Risks of Over-Reliance on AI in Hiring Decisions

Lydia: In terms of generative AI and the use of AI technology in executive recruitment itself, in what ways have these technologies impacted the space?

Richard: I can’t really offer an opinion more broadly than in our business. And I would say that, obviously, there’s AI associated with creating Boolean search strings to find candidates on LinkedIn, and so on. But fundamentally, recruitment is a human business. Human beings want to talk to other human beings.

I think that where companies become too reliant on AI, for example, if they use AI to look at people’s CVs and determine who should be interviewed and who shouldn’t be, they might overlook a candidate who’s excellent at their job but terrible at writing their CV. So, if you’re using AI, and it excludes that candidate because they couldn’t write a good CV, then you’re potentially missing out on an excellent hire.

Our reliance on AI is not very high. We have people who love to recruit and love to talk to candidates, and they know that they have to hustle to get the job done.

Lydia: Going back to your point about relationships being paramount, I mean, this is certainly key when it comes to establishing that trust with clients and candidates. So, how do you nurture that relationship between the consultants or your associates with a candidate as well as the clients? What goes into that? What sort of factors really build that trust?

Richard: I think people want to be part of a community. So, I think there are two ways of looking at it. First, you’ve got to do a really good job. As recruiters, we tell the client that we can deliver, and then it’s up to us to actually deliver. We should bear the risk of non-performance. And, of course, the statistic shows that 90% of people who join the recruitment industry leave within two years and never return. They often think, ‘Oh, it’s so easy—you just go and talk to some clients, pick up some jobs, and put an ad on a job board.’ But it’s obviously far more challenging than that. The recruitment industry doesn’t have a very good reputation because recruiters are notorious for over-promising and under-delivering, both to employers and candidates. So, the number one foundation is that you actually have to do your job really well.

From a client’s point of view, you have to be more than just a recruiter; you have to be a trusted adviser. When recruitment consultants are briefed on roles, they often don’t challenge the employer. They don’t ask questions like, ‘Do you really need that?’ or ‘Is that really feasible?’ or ‘Why do you require that?’ They’re not pushing back. As a result, they end up getting briefed on roles that are either unfillable or extremely challenging. So, part of delivering a good service is having a relationship with the client where you can truly be an adviser to them.

Lastly, building community is essential. For example, I run a monthly networking event and a bi-monthly lunch event. I regularly travel to meet with both clients and candidates. I also organize special forums for CEOs and managing directors to discuss their businesses. It’s all about bringing people into your community and showing them lots of love.

Recognizing Transferable Skills to Find Candidates Across Contexts

Lydia: In terms of CEOs or C-suite executives and their outlook on bringing new hires into the company to drive transformation or the next phase of a business, what sort of leadership mindset should leaders or Talent Acquisition leaders be looking at when seeking executive talent? What elements or factors should they consider when identifying talent that will be fundamental to driving transformation in the business?

Richard: So, going back to performance-based hiring, again, ideally, you want to find people who have done it before, done it well, and are motivated to do it again. The first step is to become really clear about the actual quantifiable key deliverables of the role. Often, position descriptions are very generic and filled with what I call ‘motherhood statements.’ For instance, they might say, ‘We want somebody who can lead a team, manage budgets, and ensure safety.’ However, every job has its unique key deliverables and responsibilities. So, the initial focus should be on thoroughly understanding those key outcomes, including cultural aspects.

Once you have that understanding, the next step is to look for evidence in the candidate’s background that they have successfully handled similar responsibilities before. Even if they haven’t done it in the exact same context, transferable skills matter.

Not all leadership roles require the same type of leader. Businesses, at different times, may need someone to grow the business, reduce costs, launch new products in new markets, or navigate voluntary administration.

It’s about identifying the leadership qualities required for the specific situation.

For example, someone might excel at growing businesses but lack the ability to manage through voluntary administration. This doesn’t make them a bad leader; it simply means they might not be the right fit for a role that demands those specific skills. So, once again, it’s not a one-size-fits-all approach. Every placement, every brief, requires a deep understanding of the desired outcomes.

Lydia: What steps can a consultant take to make sure that they are completely clarified or they've completely understood what needs to be looked at in terms of a job brief or a role that comes in?

Richard: We are putting together a document called a performance profile. So, I’ll say to my client, “Okay, let’s assume that you’ve employed a person, and let’s call him Sam. So, Sam’s coming into the job. What are they walking into and what are the mission-critical, key deliverables you need done in the first 90 days?”

Then the employer will say, “Okay, well, this is the situation, and this is good, this is bad. This is where we need remedial action, or this is this particular project that we need them to get focused on. Okay, fantastic.”

Once they’ve achieved that, I ask, “What do the next three months look like?” The employer might respond, “Okay, well, once Sam has done that, these are the next things we need to do.”

Once that’s been achieved, I ask, “What do the next six months look like?” If you were to sit down at the end of a year and say, “Richard, I’m just about to do Sam’s performance review. I couldn’t be more delighted. They’ve kicked every goal, and they have achieved 100% of what I wanted. What did they do for you?”

And the interesting thing, Lydia, is that a lot of the times the employers might go, “Geez, Richard, that’s a really good question. I don’t actually know.

Lydia: Which means, they probably haven't given that enough thought.

Richard: That's right. So again, going back to my role as a trusted adviser, my job is to be able to elicit that information. Then, I articulate that back to them in a document, which also covers cultural fit, qualifications, etc. The goal is to have them agree to that.

Then, that becomes the foundation of us, going into the market. The great thing about doing it that way is when you're approaching candidates. Candidates love to do what they're good at. So, if you can clearly explain what your client wants, the candidate is going to say, "Oh, I love doing that. I'm really good at it. I'm definitely interested."

Or they're going to say, "Look, that's really not for me." In that instance, it saves a lot of time, and we end up presenting much stronger shortlists.

Understanding Candidate Motivations - It’s More Than Just Money

Lydia: Now, from the candidate’s point of view, considering executive search, etc., you mentioned earlier that candidates’ expectations are also changing. So, in terms of the executive level and talent available in that space, what are they searching for? What could recruiters pay attention to, and maybe be more attuned to?

Richard: Well, I think candidates are looking for jobs where they will succeed and thrive, where they will be mentored and developed to their fullest potential. And again, what you see a lot of the time if you've read job ads or position descriptions, they're very bland and boring. There's really no employer value proposition. There's no call to action that would really inspire a candidate to want to put themselves forward for an opportunity.

Then, once they're in that opportunity or considering that opportunity, what do they want? They want visionary leadership, they want to work with a great team, and they want to be given the tools necessary to do a great job. They might need some workload flexibility around study or family commitments.

So, whatever it might be, and of course, they want to be remunerated appropriately.

Too often, employers focus on it's just about the money. Whereas the reality is, that money is definitely a consideration.

People want to be paid what they believe they're worth. But by the same token, they have far greater reasons to be attracted and retained in a role than just what the money is. Again, it's about understanding what is going on for this candidate. Why are they actively looking for a role? What are the kinds of things that are important to them, and then making sure that the opportunity is presented that meets their needs?

To use an expression I said earlier, it's not one size fits all. Everybody has different aspirations and different expectations. So it's about understanding those and making sure that you can deliver them as an employer.

Lydia: That's going back to the relationship aspect, of course. Being in the people business, first and foremost.

Richard: Absolutely. And I think that it's very easy to lose sight of that. If you just say, “How would I want to be treated in a recruitment process?” Well, generally, how you want to be treated is how you should treat the people. Simple.

Lydia: That's right. Because it's really [about] your experience as well. Very often, we tend to separate the two and we've got a task right in front of us.

Richard: Well, I put a post up on LinkedIn the other day, saying that I think internal recruiters, in most instances now, are not putting their names and phone numbers on ads. Therefore, candidates can't call them to ask any questions. I asked, "Do you think that you're missing out on good candidates?” Because if a good candidate can't ask questions, they probably won't apply.

I had a few internal recruiters respond back. They said, "Richard, it's all very well for you to say that, but I don't have time to talk to candidates." I said, "Well if you don't have time to talk to candidates and you’re a recruiter, you're either in the wrong career or there's a systemic issue where your employer is expecting you to do too much."

But if we're in a human business, and you are directly engaged on the basis of attracting talent, and yet you don't have time to talk to talent, then there's a big problem.

Reimagining Third-Party Recruitment by Adding Value Beyond CVs

Lydia: The role of a professional, or someone in recruitment or Talent Acquisition, especially as you pointed out, involves the use of technology. There's a need to maintain that human connection and also crunch data as soon as you get them, right? So, there are so many different changes to that role itself, turning into a trusted adviser, as you pointed out earlier.

So, in terms of the traits or how the role of Talent Acquisition has changed over the years, in your experience, have there been any takeaways?

Richard: If you're talking about Talent Acquisition directly within employers, then I'd say, obviously, the advent of LinkedIn Recruiter made a lot of organizations say, "Hey, we're spending all this money on external recruitment. We don't need to spend all that money anymore, we can just hire Mary, and give Mary a LinkedIn Recruiter license. And instead of paying $100,000 for one placement, we can pay Mary $100,000 for a whole year, and she can make 30 placements."

The reality though is if a recruitment consultant is of high quality, and they can earn a lot more money externally, why would they go in-house? They would only go in-house if they are unsuccessful as an external recruiter. So, these employers are bringing in, let's say, average recruiters. They're massively overloading them with workload. And then they're wondering why they're not getting access to the best quality of talent.

I would say the role of Talent Acquisition within organizations has become much more commoditized. I think the skill levels have dropped dramatically. And I think that a lot of employers have only got a short-sighted perspective.

"Okay. We might be saving money on recruitment fees, but what's their average length of time to fill? What's the cost of a poor hire?" And a lot of those things, I think, if they really did an analysis, they probably would find that the role of Talent Acquisition is not the great savior that they expected it to be.

On the other side of the coin, in third-party recruitment companies, it used to be that employers were reliant on recruiters because they had no other access to talent. So they would say, "We need to go to a finance specialist because they've got the database of the CFOs we will need for our business." Well, 99% of those CFOs now have a LinkedIn profile. And so if all the recruiter is doing is just being a conduit, a presenter of CVs and not really adding value, then employers, quite rightly, would say, "Well, why don't we just do it ourselves?"

So the role of Talent Acquisition within third-party recruitment companies needs to become much, much more than just putting an ad on a job board and praying the right person applies. We will continue to see a lot of recruitment companies either unable to transition to being a more consultative business or just not performing financially and failing.

Building Success Through Mentorship and Experience

Lydia: Richard, you've run your business for 15 years since 2009. Is that right?

Richard: That's right.

Lydia: So, as a person who runs a business successfully, and also built that community around you, a lot of work has gone into that over the course of this time, as you can imagine. What advice would you give someone who's starting or aspiring to become an entrepreneur in the executive search space?

Richard: Firstly, I would say go and work for somebody who's successful and can mentor you to be the very best recruiter that you can, if possible. You know, this is a long-term career. I've been doing this now for over 20 years. And while I would say that even from the beginning, I was more successful than many recruiters that I knew, it's taken a long time and a lot of hard work. There's been a lot of trial and error, a lot of scary moments where I've looked at the money in the bank and looked at my payroll and thought, "Oh, my God, how can I pay the people this month?" So, it's tough.

I think if you're an entrepreneur going into any business, whether it's executive search, plumbing, or retail, you need to be very tenacious. And you need to understand that you're going to be tested. Do you have the tenacity, the perseverance, and the self-belief to be able to do that? But you also need to really, really invest in your education and not regard recruitment, like the vast majority of recruiters do, but actually want to become an expert. I think Malcolm Gladwell talks about 10,000 hours.

There have been at least three or four occasions in the 15 years of Arete, where I've come very close to saying this is too hard. I'm just gonna go back and work for somebody else and I'm very pleased that I chose at the time not to do that. But you know, it's been a wild ride. It's not for the faint-hearted. But if you can make it work, it has a lot of rewards at the other end.

Recognizing Potential Beyond Traditional Qualifications

Lydia: Speaking of Malcolm Gladwell, it just came to my mind that there's a concept of being an outlier in recruitment as well. When you're looking at candidates, you're looking at the one who might be the perfect fit and might fit the job description. What's the thinking behind that? Perhaps just looking at the candidate who might have something different to bring to a role and making that assessment between the two?

Richard: Well, I think that, again, understanding the brief very thoroughly and being a competent recruiter, and talking to candidates to really explore their key achievements and transferable skills, will give you a level of awareness as to whether you think that person is appropriate to present to your employer. And, you know, again, it's a learned skill, it takes a long time.

To give you one example, I was recruiting a couple of years ago for a trade services business that provides electricians and plumbers to go into repairs and I wanted a new chief operating officer. They said to me, "Richard, we absolutely want somebody who has a trade qualification. It is a prerequisite for consideration. If they don't have a trade qualification, they won't be able to build rapport with the team, they have to be able to walk the talk."

So, while we presented a number of people who were like that, there was one particular guy who applied, who was actually a lawyer. But he worked for companies that did the majority of their marketing online, he had worked for Amazon and a travel company. And I knew that this employer did the bulk of their marketing through search engine optimization. So, I was able to say to the employer, "Look, this guy's not trade qualified. He's actually a lawyer, but he has expertise in search engine optimization and marketing, and I really think that you should consider him." And he ended up getting the job.

Now, 99.99% of the time, that person would never ever have gotten to an interview.

If the recruiter had purely looked at his CV, and then said, "No, thanks, but no thanks." It was only through investing in the candidate and really understanding them, really understanding the client's needs, and being able to push back to the client that we were able to get that outcome, which was a great win-win for everybody involved.

Lydia: That takes also, as you said, a thorough understanding of what the client wants, as well as that kind of calculated risk. If this person was really able to achieve the goals that are set out for that particular role and, and inspire that person to perhaps look at those possibilities as well.

Richard: Exactly.

Lydia: Richard, you've done recruitment for 20 years now. So, what might be your favorite or most memorable recruitment story?

Richard: I think that the story I just told about that fellow was a fantastic one. As a recruiter, we love the thrill of the chase, and we love to win and we hate it when we lose. People often refer to the recruitment industry as champagne and razor blades. So, you're either celebrating with champagne, or you're contemplating the race.

One of the things that I absolutely love is when my little humble business in Brisbane, Australia, successfully pitches against one of the big five global search firms, wins the business, and delivers fantastically. It's a bit like David beating Goliath. Those wins really make me continue. It's a bit like they say when you play golf, you can have a terrible round of golf. But if at the end, you hit one good shot, even though you've cursed the whole time, you go, "I'll come back tomorrow for another game." It's the same thing. It's a small recruiter, trying to compete against a lot of these big companies. It can become very frustrating and very demoralizing. But occasionally you get one of these wins and it makes you feel very excited for the future.

The other thing, of course, is that I love developing and mentoring my team. And, again, not really specific to recruitment, but I think most senior leaders' most memorable moments will be seeing somebody who's worked for them go on to achieve great things and feeling proud and humbled that they've played a part in it.

Lydia: Thank you so much for your time and your generous insights today, Richard. I certainly enjoyed them. For those listening in and who want to pick up a conversation with you later, do drop your contact details. Where can they connect with you?

Richard: Sure. Well, obviously, I’m on LinkedIn. But one of the things with LinkedIn is you’re only allowed 30,000 connections. And I’ve been pretty much up at around 30,000 connections. So, for those people who said, ‘I sent Richard a LinkedIn connection request, and he didn’t accept it,’ it’s nothing personal. It’s just that I’m at capacity. But certainly, you can message me via LinkedIn. My business, Arete Executive, is pretty easy to find.

If you’re interested in getting a copy of my book, ‘Uncover the Hidden Job Market,’ you can download a PDF version of it for free from my website. I do have a new book coming out called ‘Winning the War for Talent,’ which is aimed at recruiters and employers, on how to hire and retain, which is going to be out shortly. And once again, I don’t write these books to make money. I do it because it gives me a way of building community building a brand and being of service.

I have my own podcast, the Arete podcast, and there’s a bunch of other things I do. So, I’m sure if anybody Googles ‘Richard Triggs’ and looks at this very handsome young fellow, you’ll find me. Please feel free to reach out and touch base, I’d love to see how I can help you.

Lydia: It's been great having you on the show, Richard. All the best for the launch of your second book.

Richard: That's right. It's exciting to finally see it come to fruition.

Lydia: I can imagine. Thank you so much, Richard. Again, it's been it's been great listening to all your insights.

We have been in conversation with Richards Triggs of Arete Executive Search. Thank you for joining us and remember to subscribe and stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.