EP63: HLE Glascoat’s Rohan Lele on Retaining Talent & Utilizing Data

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

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This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes. My name is Lydia. And joining us this week is Rohan Lele, Chief People Officer at HLE Glascoat Limited & Yash Group. Good evening, Rohan. It’s good to have you with us today.

Rohan: Good evening, Lydia. It's good to be here.

Lydia: So, tell us a little bit about your background. I know it's extensive, but what has kept you in this talent space?

Rohan’s Journey Into The HR Profession

Rohan: To me, HR as a profession happened by choice. I always wanted to be an HR professional.

Lydia: What was the drive behind that?

Rohan: I graduated with a BBA in a general management program. And during this time, I got exposure to HR. I also did my internship with one of the organizations in HR and that [experience] stayed with me. Since I was really keen to be an HR professional, I was very clear that whatever I do further has to be in the HR space. Then I decided to do my master’s in human resource management. Since then, it’s been 19 years in the industry now.

Lydia: 19 very important years. We’ve seen so many technological shifts and even changes in the kinds of roles that you see in talent acquisition.

Past and Current Changes in the TA Industry

Rohan: Absolutely. When I started off in college, I still remember, we used to use those transparency projectors. And from there, what we see now is a sea change of technology.

Lydia: Yes, it doesn’t seem like very long ago, does it? And we’ve also seen how much and how short the intervals have become. So, in your current role, Rohan, what are some areas that you have prioritized in terms of the company’s people strategy?

Rohan: Yes, I think what we’re working on is ensuring a great employee experience for our people. I think a few years back, the world was talking about employee engagement. But today, we have moved beyond engagement. And now the world is talking about experience.

If somebody leaves my organization tomorrow and joins another company, what kind of experience is he carrying in his heart? Is he becoming a goodwill ambassador for my organization? I think experience stays with people, both positive and negative.

And the way we have one single-point agenda is to ensure that we are able to give a great employee experience. So, whether it is talent acquisition, when you’re looking at talent in the market, or whether it is learning and development, performance management, career progression, and providing a certain set of facilities to our employees, the focus is on how we can enhance the experience. There’s data that proves that when the experiences people have is positive and the engagement is very high with the organization.

Lydia: So, the engagement becomes a subset of the experience, then.

Rohan: Absolutely.

4 Elements for Retaining Talent in an Organization

Lydia: In terms of employee retention, you would also look into industries such as engineering and manufacturing. What goes into a successful strategy for employee retention?

Rohan: There is no one way or one medicine to the problem of employee turnover. It starts with hiring great leaders in the organization, or ensuring that your leaders are able to inculcate the right kind of behaviors. I am reminded of a statement by one of the CEOs. He said that,

Employees do not leave companies, they leave their bosses. So, how your leaders carry themselves in the organization plays a very important role when it comes to retaining good talent in the company.

Hence, it is very important that when you’re recruiting leaders, you don’t only check their technical competencies or functional competencies but also see whether they will be a cultural fit in your organization or not. You might come across a great talent, but will that talent be a cultural fit? Because if that individual is not a culture fit, if he or she feels out of place, people who are working with him or her, as part of their team, will feel very uncomfortable. So, I think that’s one area that you really need to fix.

I also think people want to work for a cause that is beyond money. While money does motivate, as an organization, if you can create a larger purpose and a sense of fulfilment, that would attract people.

For example, I’m working for an organization that is focusing on sustainability and the larger good of society. I work for an organization that has decided not to get into a business that, in any way, impacts the environment. Now, that’s what people want to work for. There is an innate feeling that while I want to make good money, have a great career, and a great designation, I also want to work for an organization that stands for the larger good.

So, if you can define and create that purpose and attach your employees to that purpose, I think people will want to work for you. That’s another way where you tell your employees what your vision and purpose are and make sure that they feel that they are part of that vision and purpose. That’s what creates a sense of emotional attachment and engagement with the employees.

Everybody today thinks of this one question; “What is in it for me? So, is the organization really taking care of my capability development? How is the organization investing in my future? Is it helping me develop new skills and competencies?” So, I think capability development is another area that organizations must focus on.

Lastly, while you are doing all of this, how are you creating a feeling in the employee that ensures he or she is a valued resource? That happens when you recognize them, reward them for their contributions, and don’t take them for granted. So, I think when you work on these elements, you will be able to retain good talent in the organization.

Lydia: These four elements are very strong and fundamental for building up a people strategy. Does this in any way change or is it fundamentally the same from one sector to another? For example, engineering or manufacturing, the chemicals industry versus software, or any other kinds of service industries.

Rohan: While the fundamentals remain the same, what changes is the business context and the kind of talent that you hire. And maybe the culture overall. But I think the fundamentals, when it comes to every employee, are the same.

Every employee wants to work for a great leader, a leader who is an inspiration, a leader from whom he or she can learn a lot of things.

Every employee wants to work for an organization that represents a larger good for society or that stands for a cause. Every employee has that innate desire to learn, develop, and work for an organization where he or she sees a career. And every employee wants to be recognized for good work done.

So, I think these are things that remain fundamental, irrespective of whether you work in an IT, an ITES, or a manufacturing organization, the business context does change. For example, the kind of learning strategy or talent acquisition strategy for an IT organization cannot be the same as a manufacturing organization, because the businesses are different, and the context is different. But should you hire the right leaders in the organization? If you ask that question, I think that remains the same.

Lydia: In terms of scaling a company or maintaining a culture that drives all kinds of employee engagement, as you mentioned earlier, would this fall into one of the ways that you can future-proof your people strategies?

Rohan: I believe that there is nothing like future-proof. And I’ll tell you why. Because in this VUCA world that we are living in, the kinds of changes that we have seen in the world over the last 15 years, and the pace and intervals at which the changes have happened, are unprecedented. It is so dynamic that you just can’t build a future-proof strategy. You will have to be on your toes and keep calibrating your strategy every few months or years.

The COVID is an example of how things change overnight. India went through a lockdown. Nobody knew what to do and how to run their business. So, you have to be prepared to take up challenges that will be completely unforeseen.

Can there be a future-proof strategy? Maybe not. But what is important is that you understand what could be the challenges coming your way and keep on future-proofing it. So it’s a dynamic process, you need to keep on creating and updating your strategy. Maybe 15 or 20 years back, if this question had been posed, I would have said define a strategy and forget it for 10 years, because the world wasn’t changing at the speed that it is changing today. But the whole context is very different today.

Building a Sustainable Culture

Lydia: Strategy operationalization is another aspect altogether. It is not enough to have a strategy, but you also need to execute it. For that, you need to have your processes and collaboration with different departments in place and you need to maintain open lines of communication with different stakeholders in the company. That becomes very critical in executing a successful strategy. So, how do you ensure effective or clear alignment with these different stakeholders in the company so that you can execute the strategy when you need to?

Rohan: That’s a wonderful question which reminds me of a quote by Peter Drucker. He said, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” I have been a big fan of this quote and I firmly believe in it. And I’ll tell you why. The greatest organizations, those which were number one at one point in time, have today ceased to exist. One of the fundamental reasons is that while they may have had a great strategy, but somewhere, the execution wasn’t great.

When it comes to execution, I think your culture becomes very important and fundamental. If you have a great strategy, but a bad culture, you’re doomed to fail. Because if you want to execute, your leaders must live up to those values and behaviors and ensure that everything gets executed in the most effective manner. I think it’s the culture that drives the execution of a strategy.

A lot of organizations, unfortunately, do not place the same or equal amount of importance on building the right culture as much as they do on strategy.

Lydia: Interesting. When you talked about employee experience and culture, I wondered which one forms the other. Does the culture form the employee experience? Or is it the employee experience that eventually builds the culture?

Culture Shaped By Company’s Values

Rohan: I think the way we define the right culture is very subjective. It’s about your experience with the organization. But how does an organization build the right culture? And the answer to this question is by defining the values that are non-negotiable in the organization.

So, how do you define the values that you stand for as a company? And defining values is not good enough. When you get into organizations, there are these nice displays and posters around values. But how does an organization ensure that these values are inculcated and lived every day? Not many organizations are able to do that. That happens when there is a very solid commitment from the top leadership team, that these are the values that are non-negotiable and we will not compromise. When leaders live these values, for example, ownership, collaboration, agility, or integrity, as a leader, if you do not live up to those values, you will never be able to create a great culture in the organization.

So culture is shaped by the values and the way people live those values. If you don’t live those values, you create a bad culture.

Lydia: And these leaders do not only demonstrate these values but also perhaps verbalize them at every opportunity that they can get.

Rohan: One thing is how you demonstrate those values personally. But then I always believe that leaders have an additional responsibility of not only living those values but ensuring that every team member who is part of their team also inculcates and lives these values.

I’ll give you a parallel example. When you’re a parent, there are certain behaviors that you do or don’t do, right? And you also ensure that you pass on the same legacy, the same principles, and the same values to your child. So, if I have to draw a metaphorical comparison to an organization, a leader should become a parent and ensure that their team also lives and breathes the same values that they are breathing in the organization. And that’s what creates a great culture.

Using AI and Data to Make Informed Decisions

Lydia: That leads to sustainable behaviors and culture. And behind that, or as the structural enforcement of this culture, is data, as we see today, right? How data is used to inform your hiring decisions, to inform the knowledge that you have on employee engagement, etc. So, are there any examples that you would like to share on how you use data to inform hiring decisions and even improve the overall recruitment or talent acquisition process?

Rohan: One of the CEOs of an Indian conglomerate, I remember the gentleman saying that data is the new oil. So, I think data is very important when it comes to decision-making. And we have seen how some organizations have become phenomenally successful in the market space, just by ensuring that they tap the right data and they are able to make sense of it. That makes their decision-making far more precise, and far more objective, and the chances of their success increase multifold. Or rather, I would say the chances of their failure were reduced to almost zero.

So, while there are a lot of leaders who are intuition-driven, I think there is nothing wrong with being intuitive as a leader. But I fundamentally believe that in today’s organizations, if you just purely go by intuition and ignore data, you could end up messing up your strategy. So, your intuition is important because intuition comes from a lot of experience, wisdom, failures, your successes, and that’s great. But data cannot be ignored today as well.

For example, if I talk about recruitment, we are trying to develop an entire proprietary dashboard around talent acquisition that gives us all the relevant data as to what is going right, what is not going right, and where can we improve. Are we taking too much time to close out a position? How can we re-strategize and what needs to be done?

I think data is fundamental today for making decisions. A few years back, if you talked about data to HR people, they would say, “Oh, what’s data?” I mean, it was very intuitively driven, but today, it has gone beyond feelings and beyond intuition. Today, the majority of your people-decisions are based on data.

Nowadays, you have these AI chatbots that have taken over everything else. So when a new employee joins, some organizations have implemented a chatbot that tells you, “Hey, how are you? Welcome on board. How are you feeling today?” And that chatbot continues to interact with you at regular intervals and keeps a tap on your mood in the organization. To an extent, AI can even throw up a report that out of the 100 people that it has spoken with, these are the 15 people who are most likely to leave the organization. So it proactively gives you a heads up that these are the 15 people who might leave and you need to do something about it. Data is that crucial. I mean, 10 or 15 years back, I couldn’t have imagined a predictive analysis of attrition. But today, it’s a reality.

I think, whether HR or other fields, we need to embrace technology. Not embracing technology is not a choice anymore. Because if you don’t, you are bound to fail. So, embracing technology ensures that you have the right data on your table and that you’re able to make sense of the data and then act upon the data.

Again, that’s very important. You may create the best dashboards, and you may have all the data, but if you don’t act on the data, it doesn’t help.

Lydia: And the availability of this data, and the different points that are available to a person in a larger team, or even a leader in the people team or leader in the talent acquisition team, for instance, allow more time to focus on other things.

Therefore, that also makes the skill sets evolve. So, perhaps in your point of view, or from your experience using data and seeing the technologies that have changed, how would you describe the role of a talent acquisition partner in today’s context? And what kind of skill or acumen does a talent acquisition specialist need to have?

Rohan: First and foremost, I believe every professional needs to look at their role and ask themselves; “Are there things that I’m doing today that are not value-added, that are important as part of the process, but are not value-adding? Can I outsource them or can I use technology to do that job for me?” The moment I start thinking in that direction, I am left with more time to do quality work and value-added work. For example, let’s say I want certain reports or data and I sit on my computer for three hours every day, wasting my time preparing something.

Now, how can AI help me get the same data in minutes? How can I use technology? Or is there something that maybe I don’t need to do, I can outsource it to somebody else? That’s something that we need to ask ourselves; “How can I be more effective and more efficient?” And the best way is to either outsource or let technology take up certain tasks that are repetitive in nature and not value-adding. And then you get all the time in the world to focus your energies on something that is more strategic and more value-added. And in that context, I believe, particularly in reference to talent acquisition, AI is a great boon.

I remember about 15 or 20 years back, there were IT organizations and banking organizations that hired thousands of people every year. Imagine how much time it must have taken to screen the profiles of candidates. There was a whole team within talent acquisition that would sit and only screen resumes. Today, AI and technology are doing it for you in minutes, not days.

So, I think embracing technology is a great thing. I was talking to one of my friends in banking and he said that they are looking at technology to have a completely automated interview process, which has no human interaction. Imagine where the world is really moving to. An interview process that doesn’t have any human interaction.

Enhance Employee Engagement and Retention with Data

Lydia: At most, I think we’ve seen it evolving to assessment-based and at least the first two levels of interviews where they go through a questionnaire, for example, and then they go through an assessment. After that, there is a screening, then you’ve got the shortlist, then you move on to a person. And in that sense, AI has definitely pushed the boundaries a little bit more for anyone in the field and forces them to maybe develop different skills as well.

Rohan: Not just AI, but also there are assessments that are available, which give you a holistic view of someone’s personality and whether that individual will fit the kind of job role that you are looking for. There are very advanced level psychometric tools and assessments that are available. And if you use all of that, there is so much data that is available on hand to decide whether you should go ahead with this talent or not.

Rohan’s Advice For Young Talent Acquisition Professionals

Lydia: In the recognition of that data, the speed at which you use it or the frequency at which you decide to use it, and when you decide to change your tactics or your overall strategy, is going to be key as well. Looking at the speed at which things are going, the competitive landscape we are seeing on the candidate side, and especially for technology and even all the traditional sectors as well. What advice would you give someone starting up in talent acquisition?

Rohan: I think it is not just talent acquisition, but it is advice for all young professionals beyond TA also. One thing that is very important is to understand the business that your organization is in. Depending on the business, the challenges are different. And because the challenges are different, the context is different. For example, when I look at an engineering business and a chemical business, the business challenges and the context are very different. And everything that we do, our actions, have to be contextual.

Just because you’ve seen something great happening in another organization, you try and cut, copy, and paste it into your organization. It doesn’t work like that, because your context will be very different from the context of the other organization. So, it’s very important that you understand your business, work with your stakeholders very closely, and be hands-on. Don’t try to be a manager from day one. Be hands-on.

The more you are closer to the business, the better you understand what its requirements and challenges are. And when you’re hands-on, you’re in a better position to offer them great solutions. and you will be respected as a professional, irrespective of whether you are an HR professional or whatever, when you’re able to offer great solutions to people.

So, understand the business, understand the context, and work very closely with your stakeholders. And most importantly, keep the fire of learning on. I’ll give you my personal example. I have decided for myself that every year, I’m going to take up one new thing to learn.

Lydia: What was it this year?

Rohan: So this year, I have taken up a certification in coaching and I am also taking up a certification in one of the oldest psychometric tools. These are two things that I’m working on right now. Next year, I want to do something more.

It’s very important for you as a professional to keep on evolving. Those days are gone when you started with a job, worked for 30 years doing the same job, and then retired. Today, with the advent of technology and AI, if you don’t work on yourself and if you don’t keep on evolving, you will be irrelevant to the market in the next few years. I think that’s my piece of advice to all the professionals.

Lydia: Brilliant advice. Because as we see today, not just businesses are affected, even people’s entire roles have changed or have just completely disappeared. Definitely valuable advice.

Thank you so much for your time and your insights, Rohan. I’m sure the audience at some point will want to connect with you and pick up on a conversation or a point that you have shared today. So, where can they find you? Would LinkedIn be the place?

Rohan: I can be found on Instagram. So, my ID is Rohan Lele (@rohan_lele_official). Or you can find me on Gmail. My email is rohan.lele@gmail.com.

Lydia: Thank you very much, Rohan. We wish you a great evening ahead. We have been in conversation with Rohan Lele, Chief People Officer at HLE Glascoat Limited and YASH Group. Thank you for joining us this week and stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.