All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.
Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.
My name is Lydia and joining us today is Abhishek De.
Welcome, Abhishek. Thanks for joining us.
Abhishek: Thank you for having me, Lydia.
Abhishek’s Journey in Talent Acquisition
Lydia: Abhishek, walk us through your experience in talent acquisition and tell us a little bit about your current role at High Radius as the VP of talent acquisition.
Abhishek: My journey in talent acquisition began at Microsoft, where I was part of the Bing hiring team. It felt like working in a startup within a large organization, and I loved it. After that, I worked with LinkedIn, Uber, and Alcon before returning to the tech sector with Uber.
I then worked with SaaS startups called BrowserStack and now HighRadius. At HighRadius, I manage hiring for India and Europe, while at BrowserStack, I was also involved in global hiring, including the American market. I enjoyed being part of BrowserStack’s growth journey from tens to hundreds of employees. HighRadius operates on a much larger scale, and I’m excited to see how this journey pans out.
Storytelling in Recruitment
Lydia: It's interesting that you've seen what it's like to be a startup in a large ecosystem, and also a startup on its own. So, have there been any takeaways or best practices you have for someone in a similar position?
Abhishek: Yes, I think back at Microsoft, the name would open doors, and candidates would do whatever they can to get into the company, right? Back then we were not just competing with Amazon and Google, but we were also competing with Windows and Office division top talent. Vis-a-vis for a standalone startup, the sell job for recruiters is much higher.
The storytelling that's required is more intense and has to be authentic, and someone has to really believe it to sell it. That's where the real trick is. Because of the opportunities, now that the market has cool down, but then back in 2021, everyone had multiple opportunities.
The differentiating factor for someone to take the conversation forward or not would be that first reach out and call from the recruiter. So, I firmly believe that, in our startups, especially recruiters, have to be wonderful storytellers.
Lydia: And you've taken that experience then moved into smaller entities or another setup and also seen exponential growth. So, in HighRadius, what are some areas that you prioritize, especially in this first half of the year, given the competitive landscape that we're seeing for talent, and also, some amount of economic volatility that we see?
Abhishek: HighRadius has been a first in many ways. Most of my previous experiences have been around coming in and then building a team. While it may seem painful at the beginning, it is probably the easiest thing to do. Because you’re hiring people who are going to be the perfect fit for what you want to be doing. Additionally, you’re hiring people after the sort of mindset that you have, and so on.
HighRadius inherited a 50-member team with different challenges in terms of really entrenching yourself as a leader when you have an existing team in place and a high-performing team at that. So, the first priority was really to ensure that all of us are aligned, and shooting towards the same target.
The Second was to probably plug any gaps that we might have in terms of competencies on the team. Be it in terms of market mapping, market intelligence, leadership, hiring certain aspects of tech, or go-to-market hiring. How do we fine-tune the individuals that we have on the team? How do we enable them to do better and do the best version of their work, and also onboard some critical talent to fill some of those gaps in competencies?
That’s been one major gap that I’ve been working towards. The other has been a very tight partnership with finance because recruiting shouldn’t necessarily be a downstream activity where the entire planning gets done, and then you just throw some certain requisitions to fill.
So this time, we’ve moved a little more upstream where you’ve been working with the strategy team and the finance FP&A team to figure out what the budgets are going to be, hence what headcount we need to hire. When do we need to hire them so that there is more predictability in terms of how the recruiters go about their targets?
Navigating Nuances in Global Hiring
Lydia: Now, I understand that one of your key areas of focus is also on global hiring. Given the Indian and Europe coverage that you have with your 50-member team now, what would you say is the significance of global hiring requirements? Especially today, we’re living in an interconnected world. So, in your experience, have they evolved over time?
Abhishek: I’ll answer this in two parts. First, my previous organization, BrowserStack, went completely remote post-pandemic. Second, HighRadius is a complete return to office workspace.
With BrowserStack, going remote opened up more avenues for us to hire top talent from across India and Europe. We could hire from many European countries where there was no visa challenge, and that worked out beautifully for us.
However, there were certain nuances that we had to be careful about when hiring in Europe. For example, you can’t just pick up the phone and give someone a cold call like you can in India because of GDPR rules and things like that.
I still remember when we were hiring someone in Germany for a data center, and the offer contract had to be bilingual. We didn’t know how to do that, so we had to work with lawyers and linguists in Germany to get it done.
In HighRadius, it’s been a very different journey. We had setups in Amsterdam and London in Europe, and then we were looking to set up another center that would be more cost-effective. Our recruiting team worked very closely with the business to zero down on Krakow in Poland as one location. We set that up from scratch at the beginning of the year, which was a great experience. We didn’t have a recruiter on the ground for Poland, so the team in London and Amsterdam and the team in India really pulled together to make it happen. It was a wonderful experience setting that up.
Lydia: So, who might be the key stakeholders when setting up new processes like this? I presume it’s not just a talent acquisition professional, but also legal and several other parties. Who would be involved in making sure this process is set up correctly?
Abhishek: Sure. In a small setup, the key stakeholders would go right up to the CEO, especially in startups. The C-suite, where you have various functions pulling their weight, would also be involved. This includes the legal and finance departments because the budgeting has to be right. Legal teams in India or the U.S., as well as partner firms in Europe, would also be involved to ensure that no labor norms are violated when setting up these teams. There are regulations around the percentage of foreigners you can hire versus how many local laborers you have to hire, and so on. So, multiple departments are involved, primarily legal, finance, and HR, along with talent acquisition and the C-suite.
Lydia: So, in terms of global hiring requirements across different industries, or sectors, or at least the ones that you've seen, are there any commonalities and best practices that can be applied universally?
Abhishek: The only two industries I’ve worked in are tech and medical devices. With Alcon, I was also managing Asia hiring, except for China. There are nuances in terms of what sort of InMails people will respond to. I had to use Google Translator quite frequently.
Lydia: Did that work for you? Was it accurate?
Abhishek: It did. When we were hiring in Vietnam and Bangkok, it worked pretty well. We got way more responses than sending out InMails in English. We experimented with this when looking at Polish candidates too. Translating into Polish increased our response rates by 25%. However, this is not a generalization; there will be cases where it won’t work. I also realized that, since LinkedIn has been the platform of choice for outreach, changing your location to that particular country helps people think that you’re a local person reaching out rather than someone sitting somewhere else. It does help with responses. People do go through folks’ LinkedIn profiles before responding. So, having a formal picture and enough written about your company and what you do adds more credibility and increases the chances of a response. Those are some of the learnings.
Tapping into Different Talent Pools
Lydia: You mentioned that LinkedIn is currently the platform of choice for global hiring. Are there other channels, job boards, or talent pools that you might tap into to find the right kind of talent?
Abhishek: We have used other platforms such as Monster in the U.S., as well as AngelList. However, our success on these platforms has been limited, perhaps because we’re not using them correctly. The volumes are not high enough for us to use too many of these platforms, so we’ve stuck to LinkedIn, which has worked out really well for us.
At BrowserStack, when we set up our recruiting team, it was initially all in India, recruiting everywhere in Europe and the U.S. But when we had some predictability in terms of the volumes we needed to hire, we hired recruiters on the ground in those locations. This helped improve response rates, conversion rates, and everything else. And they all used just LinkedIn, nothing else.
Lydia: You mentioned before the importance of having your outreach translated into the local language. To be more specific, how do cultural differences and language barriers impact global hiring?
Abhishek: I remember having a 0% response rate when reaching out to people in Japan, even when using translation. Clearly, there are nuances that I am not aware of. There could be things around salutation and how you actually reach out to people. Japan is a more relationship-driven country, where people do not just respond to a cold email. The learning there was probably to reference someone who is a mutual connection and build rapport in the first part of the email before getting to the business end of why I sent the email, rather than being upfront about an opportunity.
In Germany, I have seen people being very straightforward in how they communicate and how they would like to be communicated with. They do not engage in small talk and want to get to the point and move on. That has been another nuance in Europe.
On the other hand, the Irish love to have fun. There is always banter around soccer or other topics.
Lydia: As a talent acquisition professional, it seems that when doing global hiring, you almost have to adopt different personalities and communication methods.
Abhishek: Yes, not just in terms of hiring, but even managing teams, there are nuances.
Things that would motivate someone in India may not motivate someone in London or Amsterdam. A certain managerial style may work well in India, where it is more about showing and doing. You tell people how things are done and they will do it. Whereas in Europe, I have seen people be more independent.
They prefer being allowed to do things their way and then receive feedback if something falls through the cracks so they can improve. These nuances apply to managing teams as well.
Legal and Regulatory Considerations in Global Hiring
Lydia: Are there specific things that candidates from different regions of the world ask during the introductory process? Is there a particular topic they would like to find out more about or are they looking for answers in a specific segment?
Abhishek: Yes, I think that even within a particular country, such as India, there are differences depending on the profession of the person. For example, a techie would want to know more about the interesting challenges they will work on, whether they will work on cutting-edge technology, and how they will sharpen their skills. Money comes later. On the other hand, salespeople or sales leaders are more concerned with quota attainment, historical quota attainment, what sort of accelerators are in place, and how often people meet their quota.
There are different courses for different horses in that sense, even within a particular country. I may be generalizing a bit too much, but I think in Europe, people are more career-focused than just compensation-focused. They would switch a career and not just a job. In the U.S. and India, I have seen people switch jobs as well. If it is the same job at the same level but at higher pay, they will take it and try to make the best of it. For them, the job is not necessarily the center of the universe, at least in the U.S. It is just a means to get to things they enjoy doing.
Lydia: So, it’s not so much about where they are based, but rather what motivates them in their segment. It really goes back to the individual at the end of the day. Moving back to global hiring, what are some legal and regulatory considerations that organizations, even small ones with mature processes in place, should be aware of when hiring employees from different countries? Are there any examples you would like to share?
Abhishek: Absolutely. If a company has customers in Europe, they must be GDPR compliant in terms of data privacy. For example, when evaluating an Applicant Tracking System (ATS), the first thing to ensure is that the tool is compliant with GDPR norms. Otherwise, storing candidate data indefinitely in a repository is strictly prohibited.
Secondly, it is important to consider what sort of data should be collected during the recruiting process. There are certain tools that may have been customized for users in India to help filter out candidates easily based on factors such as salary or willingness to relocate, marital status, etc. However, I know of companies that have gotten into trouble when taking that same system global because you would not necessarily ask those questions about marital status or gender unless people want to self-declare.
I have seen smaller setups make the mistake of going global suddenly and assuming that their existing ATS or tools can be scaled globally as-is. It would be better to audit the processes, even if it takes some time, to avoid ending up in a legal mess later.
AI as an Enabler in Recruiting
Lydia: In that case, it is always good to look forward and have a vision of where the business is going before investing in a tool that can scale with your plans. Absolutely. In terms of technology, you mentioned using translation tools, which are quick and easy to use. We have seen widespread adoption of AI in many aspects of business. How do you think talent acquisition professionals can benefit from Artificial Intelligence?
Abhishek: That’s a great question and something close to my heart. I often get asked at conferences if talent acquisition jobs will become redundant because of AI. The short answer is no. AI will always be an enabler because there are certain decisions that are based on emotional intelligence and cannot be made by AI. AI can parse data from a CV and tell you the percentage match between the job description and the keywords in the resume, but it cannot determine if a person is a great culture fit. AI may rank people based on skill sets, even for a tech role, but you won’t know their problem-solving ability until you interview them and ask about their past experiences.
AI can help build more efficiency in our roles by taking away repetitive tasks so that we have better data sets to drive decisions. Until singularity hits, which I personally feel is quite a ways off, we should be good. I was on a panel where a gentleman referenced AI as being like a knife - it can be useful or harmful depending on how it is used. The same goes for AI. If it is used responsibly, we should be fine.
Lydia: Today, we have enablers in place, especially in terms of global hiring. However, there are different nuances and requirements that vary from country to country. As a talent acquisition professional in charge of global hiring, how would you describe the role in today’s context?
Abhishek: In today’s context, the role of a talent acquisition professional has become more important. It’s not just about filling requirements, but about finding the right match between an individual and a job.
We play a larger role than just filling requirements for a company; we also help people make their careers. By helping people make the right choice, they will trust us. The biggest asset that a talent acquisition professional has, after a decade or so of experience, is their network and the trust of that network in their ability to find the right fit for the candidate.
My biggest asset today is people who I have hired elsewhere and who have had a great experience and want to work with me again. There have been cases where it has worked out well; people may have been very well settled in certain jobs but have taken a leap of faith because they feel that as a recruiting professional, we won’t let them down in terms of compensation or opportunity.
I think that recruiters do not stress enough about how they treat people while closing a requirement. The talent pool is not growing any bigger, while opportunities are increasing in the market. The talent pool is not necessarily keeping up in terms of speed of growth with the opportunities. So, if you were to look at that, then essentially you’re revisiting your candidates at least once in two or three years. If you haven’t treated them well when you first interacted with them, they will not entertain another conversation regardless of which company you’re at. That’s the real value that I think a talent acquisition professional should bring to the table: doing the right thing for the organization, but also doing the right thing for the candidate.
Lydia: It’s one thing to build momentum, but it’s another thing to build momentum that lasts and moves forward. On that note, you also mentioned having a great experience in talent acquisition. What advice would you give to someone starting out in talent acquisition today?
Abhishek: Look at the bigger picture. Many talent acquisition professionals, especially earlier in their careers, operate like service providers or agencies. Yes, closing a role is important, but closing a role with the right person is even more important. We often forget that we are part of the HR function and it’s not just about onboarding someone. If you onboard the wrong person, it can damage your credibility and create chaos within the organization. Then you have to go back and backfill that position, and this person may have to backfill many more positions because of the chaos they might have created. So, think holistically as an HR professional rather than just a talent acquisition professional.
Always be curious. I meet and interview multiple people and am currently in the middle of interviewing for my team as well. They’ve had great experiences, closed roles, etc., but they haven’t been curious enough to understand why that role was important. Could the hiring manager have hired someone internally? Why are certain tech stacks important? My biggest gripe is tech recruiters not knowing tech because they need to know a little bit of tech to be able to evaluate candidates. You cannot always delegate the responsibility of screening upwards. So, those two things are important: think broadly like an HR professional rather than just filling roles, and be curious to learn.
Lydia: How do you keep up with the changes in the industry, especially in tech, and stay informed about the roles and their details? How do you ask the right questions to get the answers that would help you make a decision? How do you keep up with industry trends?
Abhishek: One of my managers at LinkedIn once told me that every challenge is an opportunity to learn something new. So whenever I encounter a problem, I see it as an opportunity to learn because it hasn’t been solved yet. I spend a lot of time with my hiring managers to understand the challenges in the technology market, which has been evolving rapidly. For example, the DevOps, SRE, and now DevSecOps segment has evolved so quickly, with multiple open-source tools coming into the market. Knowing enough about these developments helps me differentiate good from better or good from bad and helps my team do better.
I spend a lot of time watching podcasts to learn what thought leaders in the space are talking about. I also read a lot about M&A, startups, and the SaaS space in general. Spending time with hiring managers has helped me so far.
Lydia: Thank you very much for your time and insights today, Abhishek. It was great to get a glimpse into the operational and strategic side of hiring people from different regions to achieve your strategy. It’s impressive that you’ve inherited a team of 50 and have to go out to very big regions. I’m sure many listeners would appreciate some validation on how they should think about global hiring. Thank you again for your time and insights. Could you please share your contact details so that the audience can connect with you after this?
Abhishek: You can find me on LinkedIn as Abhishek De, and my official email is abhishek.de@highradius.com.
Lydia: Thank you, Abhishek. We have been in conversation with Abhishek De of HighRadius. Thank you for joining us, and remember to subscribe to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.
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