EP50: WTW - Honing a Candidate-Centric Mindset (With Caselyn Anne Gonzales)

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

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Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you'd like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes. My name is Lydia, and joining us today is Caselyn Anne Gonzales, Head of Talent Acquisition at WTW.

Welcome to the show, Caselyn, all the way from the Philippines.

Caselyn: Thank you. A pleasure to be here and hi, everyone.

The Colleague Experience

Lydia: Tell us about your background in talent acquisition and maybe a little bit about your current role in WTW.

Caselyn: Sure. I've been doing recruitment for more than 15 years now. I have experience in supporting various industries from outsourcing, banking and finance, design, engineering, and consulting.

I've led teams not just in the Philippines, but also Asia in the past, and now I'm currently the head of talent acquisition for WTW, here in the Philippines.

Lydia: So, walk through the meaning behind Pursue New at WTW. I notice it was very prominent on the website. What does that mean?

Caselyn: Pursue New was part of our employer branding messaging for Willis Towers Watson, and you’ve noticed that we moved away and rebranded to WTW. So, it’s still part of our DNA and that call to action of Pursue New is integrated into speaking to our current and future colleagues that we want to attract to the company.

It’s really designed to speak to the overall colleague experience and to highlight that we are an organization that has an inclusive culture. Colleagues can be their authentic selves when they come to work, and we are an organization that does the right thing in both how we work and in the companies that we support. We have a culture that is committed to teamwork and community, and we are a team of experts, as evidenced by our knowledge and experience.

So, Pursue New and explore opportunities with us are the things that we want to highlight because these are what we do best. And this is what is unique about the company or the brand that we’re part of.

Lydia: You mentioned something that's quite interesting; a term ‘colleague experience.’ So, what does that mean?

Caselyn: So for us, the colleague experience is really just when we did our survey and read, highlighting our current strengths. We want to keep these and nurture this not just for the colleagues that are currently part of the organization, but also for the incoming ones. They can be their authentic selves when they become part of the organization. We highlight that we have the highest level of integrity, and we do the right thing, not just with the work, but also with the companies that we support.

We are in a consulting firm and we support top companies in certain areas within their field. So we always do the right thing for them. We have a very collective, committed teamwork and community of the current colleagues that we support and also the clients that we have, and the expertise that we bring to the table. And as I mentioned, we are a group of experts through our knowledge and experience, and that’s also our added value.

So, we want to make sure that when we speak to our colleagues, again to our future and current ones, these are some of the four critical elements that we instill. And as mentioned, these are the current strengths now that we want to retain and nurture further as we go along.

Four Vital Areas of Focus

Lydia: It’s also interesting to know that it doesn’t just stop at candidate experience. You’re also looking at them as having one foot in the door and already being seen as future colleagues or prospective employees, right? People who have already shown some kind of potential.

So moving on to my next question, what is your approach to talent acquisition today? You’ve been in the field for 15 years now. We’ve seen major disruptions and uncertainties and especially in today’s competitive talent market. So, what areas have you or did you prioritize taking on this role?

Caselyn: I agree with you on that, Lydia. Yeah, that’s correct. Again, I’ve been doing this for more than 15 years now, and the last two years have been very disruptive. It’s unprecedented what we’ve been experiencing. But to answer your question, what are the areas that I prioritized since taking on the role? For me, I think there were four vital areas that I wanted to focus on.

The first one is really just ensuring that you have the right talent acquisition talent within the team that you’re supporting. It’s a combination of grit and result orientation.

It’s very important that you have that same behavior skill set that the TA team should have because that should guarantee results. So for me, it’s very important that you have a very solid Talent Acquisition team to support you.

Second, is really the activation of new sourcing channels and strengthening existing ones. So, meaning in our field, you cannot stop looking for new sourcing channels. There’s always going to be a new way of attracting and getting talent, it can be in the form of a new website, it can be a new Applicant Tracking System that can also post jobs, it can be a new software. So, that would always change. And making sure that you activate what is new and exploring that solution was vital for me. And I think that will always be vital, regardless of the timeline that you’re looking at.

Third is really understanding the story of the organization and sharing your unique story in the conversations that you have with future candidates. So, these are talking about critical touch points. And it’s not just branding and what’s written on the website, it’s really educating your employees and even your team members to highlight the unique story about the organization and reemphasize that in all of the conversations that you have with the candidate. You need to make sure that you’re speaking of the same thing. And it’s also vital for me to have that in place.

And last but not least is focusing on candidate feedback. It’s important for you to have a candidate-centric mindset. And for me, that was critical as well because that will help us remain competitive.

Lydia: These sound like structural or foundational elements that you have to put in place. So, going back to your first point, which is getting the right kind of talent to be in the Talent Acquisition team, what did you look out for when you were structuring this to work towards your goals?

Caselyn: To be honest, it’s easy to get the right mix of experience. I would also say that it can be assessed through a lot of conversation. But it’s the behavioral aspect of it that I think leaders often miss because, at the end of the day, experience is one thing, but there’s that type of behavior that needs to be in place - for team members to have that level of efficiency and result oriented mindset.

We are in an industry or a field that it’s not easy. It’s an everyday grind that you have to do day in and day out. So having that similar behavior and having the right team in place can help you cross or navigate through very tough times or situations. And again, the last two years have proven that. So, I think for me, it’s very important that you have that right kind of mix because it can help you overcome a lot of obstacles. Even if in the next two to three years, we still experience the same market struggle.

Balancing Historical Data and New Sourcing Channels

Lydia: What is the approach or thinking around data? Because of a few points that you mentioned earlier, which are the areas that you prioritized, one is the tools that you need, the second is the channel, and most have gone digital today. You’re also looking at feedback and many of these have data touchpoints.

So, what is your approach towards data and using that to improve your processes?

Caselyn: I agree. And again, talent acquisition is very data-driven. If you get into the field, you know what’s working for you from a sourcing channel perspective that’s generating hires.

You also have to balance it from a perspective where you also need to explore new sourcing channels that are unprecedented because you need to come up often with new ways of getting the right talent pool. So it’s a combination of knowing your historical numbers but also exploring new ones. And I always say, you just have to try it out. If it’s a fail, then fail fast and move on.

From a candidate feedback perspective, it’s also the same way. If we’ve been doing the same process for the longest time, we will always have to stay close to it because candidates will always dictate where you should be heading and what they want. What they wanted two years back may not be the same thing that they would yearn for this year on. So, that’s also consistently changing. And historical data points are important for you to have a basis or a baseline of what you can improve on or what you need to steer clear of. But it can also help you drive to explore new areas, not just new sourcing channels but also ways of expediting and what matters to candidates.

So, I think it’s always going to be a balance. You have to know your historical data, you need to know where you’re getting the candidates and what they need. But you also have to have that level of foresight, knowing that they might require different things. And you would only know that not just based on the feedback that they will provide you but also have a strong connection with what’s happening externally to dictate what to do moving forward.

Lydia: And as you said, things change exponentially and the speed at which we’re looking at changes and even new technologies coming into the picture is also to a certain extent unprecedented.

So, how do you stay up to date with the technologies that are coming in? And also, the candidate's expectations today?

Caselyn: I think technology would play a big role in that, Lydia, which is both an advantage and can be a disadvantage depending on how you look at it. But at least nowadays, you have immediate feedback, not just from a certain perspective. The tools that you have from an Applicant Tracking System down to job portals, it’s an open market nowadays, you can always get that data from outside. But at least balancing that with always keeping up-to-date in terms of trends, that’s also where you can leverage external surveys. You can also leverage external research that for us, we do and we also work with organizations to help us out.

I think for now, getting information on what’s available externally plus knowing what has worked in the past provides you with a balanced approach on how to navigate through either change in the market or how to attract the next person that you want for the organization.

Challenges in Tech Recruitment

Lydia: And on that note on technology and data, let’s talk about tech talents. Many companies have failed or have been forced to shift towards digitalization as you’ve noticed in the past two and a half years, even before then, I would say. Many of these companies have, in essence, become digital businesses and just about every business today needs tech talents.

So, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges facing tech recruitment today? And how likely is it that you’re reviewing them in order to overcome these challenges?

Caselyn: I like to talk about this because this is one of the questions that I get asked all the time. You’re correct. I mean, this is how I would always explain it.

Globally, there is a scarcity in talent availability from the tech space. That is just the reality, meaning all global organizations are looking for the same talent and we want to hire them yesterday, right? But in reality, we do not have enough pool to support this demand. So, we’re not producing enough supply that can support the expedited growth of organizations or companies. So, that is also the main reason why the war on talent happened and this predominantly happened in the tech space.

So with that, what can we do? I mean, that is also the main reason why companies need to rethink the type of talent that they really need, balancing it based on availability but also having a think about their training and learning curriculums and their entity. Meaning if you know what you can attract in the market and what’s available, if you have a training and learning curriculum so that you can facilitate well. But there are also options that they can explore. I mean, you can get an external company to help them augment some of the skill gaps that they’re noticing. Or re-identify the skill that can be trained and the skill that you really need to buy. And if there’s a skill that needs to be outsourced, these should be integrated as a plan of attack because you cannot just go on buying talent externally. All organizations need to take a step back because as mentioned, the reality is we do not have enough pool to support the demand globally.

Lydia: So, in terms of a small pool and looking at potential and growth within that pool, rather than just looking at a one-size-fits-all and going for a complete or perfect candidate, right? So, what might be the priority when you look at a pool of candidates? And then you’re like, “Okay, this might be the best one right now” and “This is a candidate that we absolutely need.” So, in terms of assessing that, what might be the element or factor that’s a topmost priority?

Caselyn: You highlighted a very important point. When assessing the organization, because an organization might change, an organization might prioritize, for example, automation in its field. Some organizations might focus on digitalization as a second part. It would depend on their goals. But you mentioned that very well, you need to assess based on the order that you have. Let’s put them as an example. If part of your goal in your organization is automation and you know that some automation engineers are very scarce. You have to take a step back and assess, “Okay, what are the available talents in the market at the senior levels or junior levels, etc?”

If you’re an organization that has a limited budget and you can only attract, for example, junior ones, fine. But you know that there’s going to be a skill gap in place and that will happen, right? They cannot run a project on their own. So, you have options that you can consider either you get an external company that can help train the junior ones that you hired or you outsource that function in your organization and get a company whose expertise is doing that and help you launch that project. And then once that’s done, you can move on to the next goal for your organization.

I think it will always be a combination of both assessing what you need from an organizational standpoint, balancing it with what’s available in the market plus augmenting it with the learning and training curriculum that’s available either internally within your organization or asking another company to help you with that.

But it has to be those both areas and not just rely on purely buying talent externally because it’s not going to be sustainable for your organization as well.

Lydia: That’s interesting because my next question was actually on talent strategies; how do you develop TA strategies that would be fulfilling or that will fulfill the business needs today and also in the foreseeable future? So, I think to a certain extent, you’ve covered some of the ways and strategies to think about how to fill in that skills gap and how to augment the skills of the candidates that you already have. But are there any other tips on how to develop or how think about TA strategies that would fulfill business needs in the future?

Caselyn: I can answer it at the macro level. I think overall, the TA landscape will always change and will continue to evolve. That’s going to be consistent. I’ve shared this for a while now and this is a very aggressive field to be in recruiting. So for me, how I align what should be implemented at any given time is a combination of based on my previous experience, current feedback from the business, and a high level of anticipation or foresight. That’s going to be that combination and I create strategies based on the scenario at hand. So, at any given time, because the industry is very dynamic, combining those both in terms of application, what should be implemented would be based on that timing.

But I think what will remain consistent regardless of what happens in the TA landscape is the need to follow the candidate feedback and have it act as your North Star. For me, that is something that I’ve done so many times, and at least from experience, it worked because I believe that the candidate will always be your number one customer and they will also dictate the trend of what should change and can also give you feedback on what your team does best and even needs to improve on.

I always create strategies knowing that they are the priority and that has served me well ever since. And again, strategies can change, and demand technologies can come and go, but what will remain consistent is that the candidate will dictate what type of trend we would be heading towards and what will be the consideration that should be prioritized by organizations. So, you should follow that and the strategies will come right after.

Feedback from Successful and Unsuccessful Candidates

Lydia: Moving into a slightly deeper level, from the strategy level and looking at the different data points, where would you go to find this kind of candidate comments or candidate feedback?

Caselyn: I think surveys will always work. That gives you that data to allow you to bring feedback, not just from a survey perspective but also giving time to really be as close to the market as possible. As leaders, we tend to just look at numbers and look at the feedback from our internal businesses, and even our teammates. But from time to time, you’ll always have to look for what the market is undergoing and what’s important to them. And that means really having time to speak to them, having that focus group discussion, and really allowing them to give you anecdotal feedback about your teams and what you’re doing best, and what can be improved. That should always be part of your review and not just look at the data point every single time.

Data points are a critical part of the job, but hearing it from them firsthand, not just through surveys but also focus group discussions can also help you navigate through that.

Lydia: Out of sheer curiosity, in terms of feedback, in terms of surveys, in terms of focus groups, this kind of valuable feedback, where would you likely get it from? What kind of candidate? Would it be a candidate that has not been successful? Or would it be a candidate that has gone through and become successful and eventually become a colleague? So, where do you find that information the best?

Caselyn: Of course, it’s easy to say that you need to get that from the candidate who has passed. But that shouldn’t be the case. You need to get it from both candidates who are successful and became part of your organization but also candidates who failed. Regardless of whether they reached the initial stage or the final stages and unfortunately declined your offer, you need to get feedback from all of them. Because it will again help you dictate and have a sense of how that experience looks like and their top consideration. Being able to be as close to that as possible, regardless if they were successful or not, allows you to have a holistic view of your processes as well.

Representation in Hiring to Cast a Wider Net

Lydia: Moving on to diversity. DE&I is critical today, as we see. Even in Manatal, we’ve got more than 20 nationalities working with us. So, what are some ways to think about implementing DE&I processes or strategies in the hiring process?

Caselyn: I think for me, the bottom line is representation is key. And your candidate should see that. But also, before even thinking of how we can remove bias in your recruiting process per se, I think it’s more important for organizations to ensure that they are tapping a wide net that allows all types of people to connect with your company or brand and be free to apply and explore opportunities with you. As mentioned, a lot of companies would go through their recruitment process as the first step. But I think it’s imperative that you see and assess how your company or brand is speaking to potential candidates and casting a wider net to ensure that you’re encouraging them to be part of your organization.

At the very least, it’s not about filtering and removing bias but creating more of how do you represent. How do you make sure that all areas are well represented and you are encouraging them to explore opportunities with you? I think that’s more important rather than creating additional steps to remove those. That’s what I have observed in bigger organizations but I think that’s the first area that you need to make sure your company is doing.

Lydia: And how might this manifest itself in the process?

Caselyn: I think it’s really reviewing how you then look at your brand, right? How does that impact? What’s the tone of voice? Is this really attracting both genders and all age groups, etc.? Number two is how wide your net is in reality, meaning is your brand able to reach just a certain type of pool because that’s what you want to attract or is it really speaking to a wide range that encourages them to apply to your organization and be curious about what you can offer?

I think most of the time we’re fixated with this is the type of profile that we need, how do I then speak to them so that they apply? But that’s not DE&I, right? That’s not inclusion. You have to think about, “How do I make sure that I’m speaking to all types of people or sort and encouraging them to explore opportunities with my brand?” So, I think that’s how it should be the case and how it is positioned rather than being focused on just one profile and thinking of ways to speak to them directly.

Impact of Generative AI Tools

Lydia: And what might be the impact of generative AI tools in this respect, or even outside DE&I? What might be the impact of generative AI tools and AI technologies within recruitment? You see that in many ways now. If you want a specific skill, it sort of picks them out and eliminates, to some extent, unconscious bias. So, what might be the impact of generative AI tools and AI technologies?

Caselyn: I think I can say that it certainly made everything more accessible to both candidates and the TA teams because, in reality, we use AI in everything that we do, like how the candidates get to be matched to a vacancy. When a similar role gets to be posted or how fast we screen and assess candidates. It’s part of that. Even how we interact with hiring managers and understand their requirements and match them with candidates.

So I think the bottom line, aside from making it more accessible to everyone, it also opened the marketplace even more. It also helped us from an I&D perspective in terms of our goals but also making it accessible through a wide reach of talent plus making it easier for TA teams like ourselves. So it has a huge impact on talent acquisition.

Lydia: From the perspective of data, its technologies have definitely propelled the use of data within talent acquisition, turning it into a more analytical and mathematical function. Given all the disruptions and the fact that change is the only constant, what advice would you give to someone starting out in talent acquisition today?

Caselyn: My advice is if you’re someone who enjoys working with your team, is passionate about making a difference in people’s lives one hire at a time, and thrives in challenging situations, then this is the path for you. It’s a demanding but fulfilling career. The key is to be resilient and always strive to turn a “no” into a “yes.” It takes practice, but you’ll get there. If you’re passionate about making a difference in the world, then this is the right career path for you.

Lydia: Thank you very much for your time and insights today, Caselyn. I particularly appreciate your focus on candidate expectations and viewing candidates as future colleagues. Could you please share your contact details with us so that our audience can reach out to you?

Caselyn: Sure. Thank you for having me, Lydia. For everyone listening, please check us out at careers.wtwco.com to see all the opportunities we have available.

Lydia: We have been in conversation with Caselyn Anne Gonzales, the head of talent acquisition at WTW. Thank you for joining us this week. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels. Stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment. Thank you.