EP35: Talent - Bouncing Back from Redundancy (with Chloe Spillane, Ex-Talent Acquisition Manager)

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

Joining us this week is Chloe Spillane, a Talent Acquisition professional who was most recently Talent Acquisition Manager at Talent. She shares her recent experience having been made redundant, the power of community support and the key skills needed to keep recruiters going.

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Transcript

The transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you've liked our content so far, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.

My name is Lydia, and joining us this week is Chloe Spillane, who was previously the Talent Acquisition Manager in charge of Australia and New Zealand at Talent.

Good morning Chloe. Thank you for joining us.

Chloe: Good morning, Lydia. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be here.

Chloe’s Ups and Downs In The Talent Acquisition Space

Lydia: How did you decide to choose talent acquisition as your space, Chloe? Can you walk us through your journey transitioning from different industries to TA?

Chloe: When you look at my career history, it is pretty varied. I started in the creative arts, went into sales, then went into customer service, and then eventually fell into recruitment, as I think most people say they do.

From there, I went into my first internal role at Morgan McKinley. I think what really drove me into that space is I realized that I'm very much a relationship-driven person. It’s because I loved the relationships that I was building and loved being a brand champion. I also loved the idea of representing one brand and championing that brand throughout the market.

I was with Morgan McKinley for a year and a half, working on recruiting recruiters and looking at the AVP strategy. So after Morgan McKinley, I joined Talent, where I was part of the team building their internal recruitment function. I was looking after their internal recruitment across Australia, and New Zealand, recruiting recruiters. However, recently, I was made redundant.  I loved working at Talent. It was a fantastic organization. But unfortunately, sometimes business decisions need to be made, and so here we are.

The First Step To Take After Being Made Redundant

Lydia: Layoffs are happening across the board, right? And TAs aren't excluded from this. So what are some first steps you've taken to navigate this situation?

Chloe: I think it's a big mindset piece, right? It's very much about being okay with being made redundant. It can feel like it's an attack on yourself, or you can take it personally.

But I think you need to realize that it's not actually about you. It's about the business, and sometimes, they need to make that [tough] decision.

What I would say, especially in the recruitment space, is to navigate your own network. So a good example of this for myself, I put up a post on LinkedIn announcing that I was made redundant. I asked my own network for help, and through that alone, I had over 100,000 impressions, 670 likes, and over 100 comments.

Eventually, 62 people reached out with job opportunities from that one post. I think people might feel embarrassed or shy to acknowledge that they have been made redundant, but it happens to so many people. We've seen it happen to many people in the tech industry, specifically over the last month. So it's okay that you're made redundant.

I also think people will be surprised to see how many others in the industry want to help them move forward and find that next opportunity for them. Hence, that would be my biggest piece of advice.

Firstly, being okay with being made redundant because one door closes and another one opens. Secondly, leveraging your own professional network.

Lydia: That brings me to a question on culture. You've been in the TA space for a while and also recruited recruiters.

So what's the secret sauce, so to speak, for creating a workplace that recruiters want to come to every day, and how do you foster a positive workplace culture?

Chloe: Generally speaking, workplace culture is about how in tune you are with your own people. When you ask the people within your organization - whether you're working with recruiters or salespeople - are you fostering an environment where they feel that they can grow professionally, they feel valued?

I think if you can create a workplace or foster a workplace culture where people feel that they can have a full career with you, you're going in the right direction.

When someone joins your business, what does that journey look like with you from that first year up until that fifth year, the seventh year, and so on?

How about their career progression? How are you upskilling the people in your organization? Because when you hire someone, it's not just about hiring someone and saying, “Okay, great. You go do your job.” It's about supporting them to do their job to the best of their ability.

Additionally, we want to ensure that they’re getting the support, guidance, and mentorship to keep continue developing their skills and continue growing.

Plus, I think another key point of workplace culture is supporting your people in all stages of life. This is because when you're supporting people that have just graduated, how can you be that amazing first job that they get straight out of university? Or you're supporting someone in their late 20s or early 30s that are looking at getting married or buying a house. How can you support them at that stage? And then how can you support women when they're trying to build a family or returning to work?

All those different stages of people's lives, I think that's another really important aspect of workplace culture, and it's really important that companies show they aren't just a workplace.

Key Skills That Recruiters Should Prioritize In Today’s Context

Lydia: That sense of inclusiveness and that sense of purpose and belonging in an organization definitely create an authentic environment for anyone to want to thrive in it.

Let's talk about skills for recruiters. What are some skill key skills that recruiters should prioritize, especially in today's context?

Chloe: I think when we're looking at skills for recruiters, it’s not necessarily looking at technical skill set.

It's that mindset of thinking. For instance, how can I be a real value added to my candidate and my client, especially in today's market?

In the economy that we're moving into, clients are really leaning on their recruiters to be that value add to advise them of what's happening in the market. What are the current trends? What do they need to do to diversify their workplaces and their teams? What are the different salary ranges that are out there at the moment? What do candidates want in the market? Being that value adds to your clients, I think, is really important.

That comes down to being able to build strong relationships. So being people focused and having your candidates and clients at the forefront of your mind as being the most important part of your business. As a recruiter, if you don't have clients, that's one thing, but if you don't have candidates, then you really stuck because you need candidates to assist your clients.

That being said, if you're not putting the candidates and clients at the forefront of your mind, then you're not really thinking about the important parts of your role. So you definitely need to think about the relationship-building piece.

Also, communication. When you look at those soft skills in recruitment, being able to communicate to candidates and clients effectively, and being really transparent and honest in what you can deliver, what you can do for them, and how you can help them.

Because as a recruiter, you're helping people with one of those top five that are most important parts of their life, especially for candidates. It's about them finding a job or changing their careers. I think it's listed as one of the top five most important things in your life.

So you're having such an impact on someone, you're changing their career, you're helping them find their dream job, you're getting on that amazing pay raise that they've been looking for, for years. It's going to change their life.

Hence, I think sometimes, as a recruiter, you need to take a step back and think, wow, I am in a role where I can have such a massive impact on someone's life, and to really value that.

Lydia: You mentioned a little bit about being of value, looking at market trends, and advising your client or advising the organization on where to go in terms of looking for talent. You need to look into strategies that fulfill business needs in the foreseeable future.

So what might be some ways to think about future-proofing recruitment?

Chloe: I think, as a talent acquisition professional, when you think about future-proofing your own recruitment for an organization, there are a few things that come to mind.

One of the first things that come to mind for me is the candidate experience. When a candidate comes to your organization, what is it like for them from their first point of contact with your organization all the way through to whether they get fired or rejected?

And then what does it look like from there? Because no matter whether you hire someone or you don't, it's all about their experience with you as to whether they've enjoyed that recruitment process. And if a candidate isn't hired, if they still enjoy the process, they're still going to go and talk to 10 people and say, “Look, I wasn't hired by them. But wow, was that a great recruitment process and I would definitely recommend trying to get a role in that organization.”

And then, of course, if they're hired, then they've had a great experience. So, of course, they're going to give you some great feedback there. And I think with that candidate experience being positive, the way you do that is by looking at how efficient you can make your processes.

I think recruitment technology, bringing that into your organization, looking at your recruitment processes and your hiring strategy and looking at how you can make those as efficient as possible, which I think is with automation, and having really clear systems in place so that the systems can look after the steps of the process. And then you can add that human element in, though, I think, in terms of that future-proof piece, definitely the candidate experience and the full employee lifecycle as well. So, what does an employee's life look like in your organization after the day that they get hired by you as well?

Lydia: We're looking at a talent pool or even an employment market that is increasingly fragmented in the way that people work today. You've got contract workers - whether they're on-site or they're off-site - and you got hybrid and even fully remote companies out there.

So in parallel with productivity, we're also looking at connectivity in that workforce, right? This leads back to your point earlier on culture, soft skills, and teamwork.

They've always been as important as technical skills when companies are looking to strengthen their teams, especially in periods of uncertainty. So what are some traits you would look out for when searching for top talent in an environment like this?

Chloe: In terms of the specific trait that I look for when looking for top talents, is resilience - being okay with perhaps going through moments of uncertainty, especially, I think we saw in the pandemic where people were unsure as to what the working model was going to look like.

How many days were they going to be in the office? How many days were they going to be at home and be able to continue working through that? So, having that resilience to overcome those little challenges that might be in your way.

Additionally, I think collaboration, specifically in recruitment, is a skill that we look for. Of course, in different industries, there might be different needs. Nevertheless, collaboration, teamwork, and wanting to work together on specific projects, especially when you have people working from home, office, and people working remotely, is crucial in how can you, as a team member, be a part of the process of bringing everyone together to work cohesively. For instance, it's a colleague of mine that's working remotely today, and I want to make sure that they're included in the project or the work that we're doing.

Collaboration is undoubtedly essential. I believe in having an open-minded approach, being adaptable, and having a proactive mindset. It means constantly exploring better ways of doing things and staying ahead of the curve rather than merely reacting to challenges that come our way. Let's focus on thinking of new ideas and innovative ways to move forward.

Ensuring Diversity With Technology

Lydia: Together with all those qualities that you find in a person, there's also that element where we have to adapt to the technologies that are coming in and know how to use them to the best advantage, right? So that leads me to a question on AI.

We've been seeing plenty of use cases for ChatGPT today, and AI is essentially permeating everywhere else and in various businesses as well. So how do you think talent acquisition professionals can benefit from AI?

Chloe: I think we can benefit from AI by eliminating a lot of administrative tasks and improving the efficiency of our hiring process. For example, when hiring for high-volume roles and receiving numerous applications, implementing AI screening can eliminate the need for manual CV scanning and screening questions. Then you get a shortlist of suitable candidates, allowing you to proceed directly to the interview stage. So that takes out hours, if not a full day [of workload], for you.

I definitely think parts of the process that may bog us down at the moment could be freed up. And I think it will allow more time to focus on that human element, which is so important in talent acquisition.

It’s that relationship-building piece - not only with your candidates but also with your hiring managers. It will also allow time for us to focus on the latest trends and what's happening in our current market. What are the different trends that are coming through? What do we need to be reporting on? What's the data showing us those different parts of our role, which can sometimes get overtaken by those process focus tasks which I think AI and technology can look after?

If AI can come in and look after the process, then we can just focus on the people and bring people into the organization from there.

Lydia: So what is the impact of recruitment technologies such as Manatal’s ATS, for instance, for hiring? And in your experience, what are the benefits you've seen?

Chloe: Firstly, I think it drives the more efficient process, and it allows us to cover a wider range of talent. Because if you're doing everything manually, you're doing your own headhunting or doing your own sourcing - there's a limited amount of people that you can reach.

Whereas if you have a platform where you're being able to reach people from diverse backgrounds, different countries, and parts of the world where you would never have thought to look, I think that's a huge way that AI can benefit recruitment, specifically.

I also think it will do things such as removing unconscious bias. If you are a recruiter doing your own searching, I’m sure people try not to have bias, but of course, you're going to have your own unconscious bias. So there's software that can look after that, then I think that would be a real advantage to the recruitment industry as well.

Lydia: How might technology be helpful to ensure diversity in your hiring practices?

Chloe: I think it will really help in removing unconscious bias, which will help in looking at people's skill sets without that judgment on where people are coming from or their backgrounds. And when you put together with your hiring managers what those competencies are and what those key criteria are that they're looking for in someone. Suppose recruitment technology can come back and give you someone with that exact skill set without that bias on anything else. In that case, I think you're removing a lot of unnecessary conversations.

Lydia: On that note, what are some actionable steps that leaders and even hiring managers can take to make sure that those diverse hires that you've made feel included and that there is a space for them, and there is a good workplace culture around DE&I?

Chloe: I think the first thing an organization needs to do is an actual audit of how diverse they really are. Suppose organizations are looking at being a diverse workplace, and they need to look at everything across their gender split. What do their hiring practices look like to ensure candidates have been included from those diverse backgrounds?

Whether you're looking at race, geographical location, sexuality, or gender, ensure that you're bringing in people from diverse backgrounds. You need to ensure that you're incorporating a hiring process that allows for that. And I think that you need to foster an environment where employees can feel valued, can feel like they have a voice, and can feel comfortable at work.

Then they feel that they're not going to be criticized for who they are or where they come from, or what their sexuality is. I think that's really key to case workplace culture.

Lydia: What advice would you give someone who's starting out in talent acquisition today, Chloe?

Chloe: There are a few words or phrases that I would advise anyone going into talent acquisition to be the big key aspects that you focus on. The first thing is relationships. Build strong relationships with all of your stakeholders, all your internal stakeholders, and your external stakeholders, build out your own professional network, and build your relationships with candidates across your network as well.

I think one piece in talent acquisition that sometimes gets overlooked is the candidate nurturing piece. So in recruitment and talent acquisition, you could be speaking to candidates for two or three years before you actually put them into a role. But it's about building that relationship and trust with them.

Be a talent acquisition professional that has a very strong network of people that trust them as being someone that wants to bring them into their organization. So definitely the relationship piece, looking at your candidate experience. So if you're in your first TA role, look at how you're recruiting people. What does it look like when a candidate first applies for your organization? All the way through to whether you hire them or you reject them, both of those experiences, whether they get hired or not, should be a positive one.

So make sure you're really looking at that because that's your brand out there that’s being represented through that hiring process, and you're the one that's in control of that. So looking at what your recruitment process is, what your hiring processes are, and how efficient that is, the better your process, the better that looks for your organization, and the more likely that you're going to get those really key candidates into your business.

Lydia: You’re absolutely right because the candidate nurturing portion tends to kind of take a backseat when you have so many things to do manually sometimes. Additionally, you just have to schedule too many people's calendars at the same time. And then that sort of gets to the back burner, and you don't really pay attention to it until you need to, and then it's too late.

You got to kind of catch up, though. So thank you very much, Chloe, for your time and your insights today.

I'm sure the audience would really appreciate your insights today, especially looking into how to really upskill yourself and how to really be a talent acquisition professional in whichever economic environment you're going to be faced with.

So where can the audience look you up if they want to find out?

Chloe: You can find me on LinkedIn, Chloe Spillane. So if you do want to reach out, I'm always happy to have a conversation. Whether that's someone with a role or just someone that wants a coffee or a chat about the market or what's going on, I'm always happy to have a conversation.

Lydia: Thank you very much, Chloe, and we have been in conversation with Chloe Spillane, Talent Acquisition Professional based in Sydney who was most recently with Talent.

Thank you for joining us. Hit the subscribe button and follow us on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.