EP128: HR Ways - How to Source and Retain Tech Talent

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All In recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.

I'm your host, Lydia, and this week we have Madeeha Shameem, who is the co-founder of HR Ways. A pleasure to have you Madeeha.

Madeeha: Thank you, Lydia. I am equally excited to be here finally. I've been a user of Manatal and in the recruitment industry for some time, and I think Manatal is doing great work. I've been listening to and watching your podcast, All In Recruitment. They're so helpful, and I'm very happy to finally be here.

Navigating the Future of Tech Recruitment

Lydia: Excellent to hear. I'm so glad you like the podcast and the product as well. So thanks a lot for taking the time to be with us. Let me just start off by asking you about your journey in the talent space, Madeeha. In co-founding HR Ways, what gaps are you trying to address?

Madeeha: We basically started as a simple recruitment agency when I think that was the time when a tech industry was growing all over the world. Somehow our ratio started growing from the tech sector, so we decided to become a tech recruitment agency. I have studied tech as well, and the other founder that we have has studied HR. So it was a good combination to be in the HR tech industry.

Lydia: What are some critical areas in tech recruitment you are looking into in the near future?

Madeeha: I think the first thing to understand is that tech recruitment is not easy at all. If you search, you'll find that there are very few tech recruitment agencies in the world because finding tech talent is difficult. There are simply too many tech jobs and too few candidates applying.

The second challenge is that technology is constantly evolving. Our clients tend to change job descriptions very quickly. They might suddenly say, "Oh, I just forgot to add—they should also have a good understanding of AI." Then that trend pops up and becomes part of job descriptions. So the job requirements are constantly evolving. Everyone wants employees who are working with the latest technologies in the market.

These are some of the key aspects of tech recruitment—you have to keep up with the newest technologies, educate your applicants, and encourage them to take on freelance projects. Not everyone in a job will start working with new technologies immediately, and it’s the same for those already in tech. Many wonder how to keep up—they may have just learned one version of a technology, and the next version is already launched. It’s very challenging.

For example, take iOS and Android development. These fields are shrinking because technologies like React Native and Flutter have taken over. People who have only been working on Android and iOS development are now worried about their careers. They might have jobs for the next five years, but after that, it will be much harder. Many companies are moving their applications to React Native.

A lot of employers are also not willing to invest in training or giving these developers the opportunity to learn React Native on the job. Instead, they prefer candidates who already have experience, especially with complex technologies. This presents a major challenge for both recruiters and job seekers in the tech industry.

Lydia: Now, you mentioned earlier that you have qualifications in tech. So how has this become an advantage, and for those who are recruiting in tech who don't have this advantage, what are some steps that they should take to really keep up with these changes that you just spoke about?

Madeeha: I wasn’t a full-time software engineer. I studied geology, and in geology, we did a lot of subsurface mapping using technology. So I was exposed to a lot of software. They even taught us basic C# and C++ programming.

Although I don’t have experience with cutting-edge technologies, I do understand how tech works—at least the basics. For example, if someone has worked on a project, it’s very unlikely that it won’t be listed on their resume. So when someone makes a claim, I know how and where to verify it.

But this alone wasn’t enough. We are backed by a Portuguese-based software group with a team of software developers. Whenever a technical issue comes up, we reach out to one of our developers for their input. Anyone in the recruitment business needs to have a solid technical foundation because we claim to be technical recruiters. A technical recruiter needs a strong software background.

For example, if a recruiter is simply extracting CVs, my technical team in the background needs to confirm that I’m heading in the right direction. Tech recruitment is very different from screening an HR or accounting profile, where you mostly judge the quality of the resume and decide after speaking with the candidate. In tech, you can often evaluate a candidate just by looking at their resume, projects, and GitHub links.

Since coding is a tangible skill, your technical team can help verify a candidate’s abilities. They can check if someone has actually deployed something or just written about it. Some candidates only list technologies on their resumes without actually having worked on them. If a project isn’t there, my team can say, “No, that’s not in their portfolio—I don’t think they’ve actually done that.”

The Struggle to Find the Right Recruitment Tech

Lydia: Which comes in handy in having your own business running and setting that up. So in terms of choosing the right technology for your recruitment business to really manage all these changes, what has worked for you?

Madeeha: First of all, Manatal has worked well for me. We used Google Sheets for the longest time, but we’ve been using Manatal for about 1.5 years now. It’s not that we never considered having a CRM—it’s just that there weren’t many options in the market. I think the industry wasn’t a focus for most providers. Enterprise-level recruitment software for agencies was lacking. Most of the available solutions were designed for companies, not agencies.

We have hundreds of clients at the same time, so finding the right CRM and ATS was a real challenge. But once we did, I was happy with it—although it does cost us a bit, since we have around 30 seats, which adds up. Still, it’s been worth it, as it has significantly improved our operations.

Previously, we would share candidate lists with clients using Google Sheets. Now, we use Manatal, which has streamlined that process. Another major part of our recruitment strategy is mass emailing. It allows us to reach a large number of candidates very quickly. Sometimes, we use Manatal’s built-in email feature, and other times, we use external email services.

Email is a critical part of our recruitment process. We often need to contact 200 candidates at once, sending them notifications about relevant job opportunities. Since we have only three days to prepare a batch of candidates, technology is essential—it would be impossible to manage without it.

We also use WhatsApp and SMS messaging software in a similar way, notifying candidates about job openings. And if you consider LinkedIn a technology tool, we use that as well, along with paid ads on Google and Facebook.

Why Counteroffers Make Recruitment Cycles Longer

Lydia: Now, in terms of the companies or the potential clients that you deal with, what might be some of the biggest misconceptions that companies tend to have about tech recruitment?

Madeeha: The first thing to understand is that this misconception—thinking all positions have the same salary and budget—usually comes from new business owners. Tech positions are typically 30% to 40% higher paid than non-tech roles like accounting, finance, or marketing.

Another issue is that many companies new to the industry don’t realize they need a strong benefits package and an attractive compensation structure to retain tech talent. Companies like Google have set the bar incredibly high by offering free lunches, cozy workspaces, and extensive perks. Many well-funded tech product companies provide numerous benefits while expecting relatively little in return.

This has, in a way, encouraged a "lazy culture" in the industry, where some employees resist traditional workplace expectations. When companies expect their employees to show up on time every day, be online consistently, and submit reports regularly, many candidates push back, calling it micromanagement. They expect flexibility, preferring to provide updates at the end of the week or day instead of following strict reporting structures. These unrealistic expectations have made it difficult for IT companies to manage their workforce.

Another challenge is that many candidates become unprofessional in salary negotiations. They demand massive pay raises, and even if a company meets their demands, they often take that offer letter back to their current employer to negotiate a counteroffer. Since staying in the same company is easier than proving oneself in a new workplace, candidates often choose to stay—unless the new opportunity is significantly better.

There is a 70% chance that a candidate will accept a counteroffer rather than move forward with a new employer, making recruitment cycles longer and more challenging. This trend is particularly common in India and Pakistan, which are the second- and third-largest gig economy markets. Many companies source software engineers from these regions because they offer affordable talent, but since there are so many job opportunities, candidates have the upper hand.

In contrast, we also work in markets like Portugal, Spain, Brazil, and the Netherlands, where this behavior is less common. While there are still plenty of opportunities, employees in these regions tend to be more stable. However, in areas with an abundance of tech jobs, companies struggle to acquire and retain talent due to these challenges.

Lydia: Going back to those very basic and foundational things running a recruitment company, how do you find your candidates? I mean, what sourcing channel has really worked for you?

Madeeha: The first and most important platform for us, where 70% to 80% of our reliance is placed, is LinkedIn. We have around 275,000 followers on our LinkedIn page, and our recruiters also have strong personal followings. Whenever we have a new position, the first thing we do is post it on LinkedIn and allow candidates to apply.

At the same time, we go through our database to see who has applied for similar jobs in the past and extract potential candidates from those pipelines. Once we have a list, we organize them, send out emails, and follow up with WhatsApp messages.

If we still need more candidates, we turn to our own database and job boards to search for additional prospects. After that, we return to LinkedIn to review applications and assess how many relevant candidates we’ve received.

Since our first batch of shortlisted candidates consists of only the seven best fits, we typically find just two or three highly relevant candidates through this entire process. Time is also a constraint—we only have three working days to complete the hiring process. To stay efficient, we aim to complete our shortlisting in two days, leaving one day for the candidates to update their resumes. Essentially, we have just two days to find the right people.

If we don’t have enough candidates after this, we conduct individual outreach. We manually search for relevant professionals on LinkedIn and directly message them about the opportunity.

We also invest in paid ads but in a limited way. We spend money on Facebook and LinkedIn advertising, though LinkedIn’s paid marketing isn’t as effective or cost-efficient as Meta’s. Since LinkedIn ads can be expensive and have limited reach, we also use Google Ads and SEO strategies to attract candidates, which helps drive more traffic to our page.

Building Strong Candidate Relationships in a Competitive Market

Lydia: Yes, and you spoke earlier about candidates and the major candidates taking the job offer and possibly even going back to a counteroffer. So how do you maintain relationships with both candidates and the companies, especially in these kinds of situations or voices, when they have so many options to choose from?

Madeeha: In situations like this, we take a firm stance because we believe it’s highly unethical for a candidate to accept an offer, sign the offer letter, and then back out after five, six, or even eight days.

Since we are well-connected in the industry across multiple countries, we often communicate directly with HR professionals in those regions. When we discuss these cases with them, it almost always turns out to be a counteroffer situation. Typically, after receiving an offer, candidates stop responding for days, only to later come back and decline.

On the employer side, we make an effort to educate companies about this market trend. We advise them not to assume that just because they’ve found a candidate quickly and sent an offer letter, the hire is guaranteed. There is always a possibility that the candidate may still decline the offer. Unfortunately, that’s just the reality of the industry.

However, since launching our background check department, we’ve been able to reduce these cases by up to 70%. We conduct thorough reference checks and verify candidates' resignations to minimize such occurrences.

Lydia: And these are just parts and parcels of the journey as a recruiter, I'm sure. Also looking into such a market where candidates are in such a high demand, but also looking into your career as a recruiter, you may have had some great experiences and some great stories to share.

So could you maybe share one memorable or favorite recruitment story, Madeeha?

Madeeha: One of my most important stories is about a client who initially tried calling me twice from an international number. At the time, I was busy, and since I couldn’t answer, I assumed that if it was important, they would reach out to our company’s main contact numbers instead. So, I didn’t return the call right away.

However, something in my gut told me otherwise—maybe it was intuition. An hour later, I decided to call them back. When I checked our company’s call logs, I realized they had never tried reaching out through our main contact numbers after I didn’t pick up.

That call ended up being a game-changer. Today, that client is one of our biggest, driving nearly 70% of our company’s business. Looking back, if I hadn’t followed that instinct and returned the call, I would have missed out on thousands of dollars in revenue. That’s why this story remains my favorite—it was a simple decision that had a massive impact.

Lydia: Obviously, you've seen so much and you've experienced all this firsthand. For someone who is starting out in recruitment, what advice would you give them?

Madeeha: The first piece of advice I’d give is to focus on becoming niche. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking you're a one-size-fits-all operation. For example, if I’ve scaled up in the tech industry and decide to invest in a new team focused on something entirely different, like call centers, it won’t work the same way. The processes for tech and call centers are very different. I would need separate LinkedIn pages, distinct branding, a different team for sourcing candidates, different ad spends, and even potentially different working hours, since call centers typically operate at night, while regular positions are during the day.

I can’t make it work with the same team or the same approach. My current team understands how the tech industry works, but this would require a completely different structure.

Secondly, be responsive. Respond promptly to emails and LinkedIn messages, and to your clients or candidates. Response time is crucial—if you take too long, they lose interest. Try to provide a list of candidates within three to four working days. After that, your clients may lose interest, so timeliness is key.

Next, invest in the right tools. A good ATS (Applicant Tracking System) and reliable email, WhatsApp, and SMS software are essential. If you’re looking to generate revenue quickly, you can’t afford to skip on these tools. Some people think they’ll make money first and then invest in tools, but that delays your success. We made that mistake—we initially invested in an office space before we invested in technology. In hindsight, we should have invested in the right tools first and worked from home until we had enough revenue to afford an office.

Choose your priorities wisely and avoid making the same mistakes. Your website is also a crucial investment—it needs to be updated regularly to stay current. Keep up with trends, and make sure you're adapting to changes in the industry.

Lydia: Thank you very much. Those are great pieces of advice, and I'm sure this will go a long way with those who are thinking of even starting a recruiting business. So thanks again for your time and all these insights.

So for those who are listening in and who might want to connect with you, what's the best channel?

Madeeha: You can personally follow me on LinkedIn and leave a message. I personally check my LinkedIn every day and try to respond to as many people as possible.

Lydia: And we have been in conversation with Madeeha Shameem, co-founder of HR ways. Thank you for joining us, and remember to subscribe to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All In Recruitment.