EP126: Recruiting Gym - How Sharing Benefits Recruiters

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All In recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.

I'm your host, Lydia, and with us this week is Angela Cripps, MD of Recruiting Gym. A pleasure to have you with us today, Angela. Good morning.

Angela: Good morning. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Transforming the Recruitment Community

Lydia: So, what drove you to lead a recruitment training company? Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about Recruiting Gym, how it works, and has your vision or your idea for the recruiting community evolved since you took over.

Angela: So, I took over coming up on four years ago now. The Recruiting Gym was founded by Alex Moyle, and it was about setting up a community where people could learn from each other. The training, coaching, and consultancy that we do were opportunities for people to really enhance their skills and make our industry a better industry. So, it's all about raising standards.

Certainly, in my recruitment life, I've been involved in anything and everything that improves standards. I'm always happy to say yes, and therefore, this was something I got involved with.

When Alex started his A to Z of recruitment, he picked 26 different people to choose a letter and then gave a little tip or hint. So, there were 26 hints and tips. I took "C" because I wanted to focus on the candidate and the candidate experience. This was five or six years ago when he was thinking of starting it, so I got involved quite early on.

During COVID, it got to the point where I was pretty much running the company and Alex said, "Okay, well, yes, you're running it better than I am. Do you want to be MD?" And I was like, "Great." Then, by the end of the year, he was like, "Actually, I'm looking for my next challenge. Do you want to buy it?"

So, he still owns 20%, I own 80% of the Recruiting Gym, and we work in partnership.

Lydia: How large is the community and how many members do you have? Are they all paying members?

Angela: I just had a look this morning because we had a webinar bringing our leadership and management group together. There are 3,186 people who are members of the Recruiting Gym. Some of those are part of networks. For example, I believe we've got 800 managers from the team network, and that's part of their membership. So that's the way we work together.

No, they're not all paying members. But one of the reasons we wanted to do that is because we produce a lot of information that we can share with people to help them improve. We wanted people, especially during lockdown in 2020, to have an opportunity to train themselves and take the time to do that.

Therefore, we have courses. They're not necessarily traditional training courses but rather a collection of information under eight different topics. For example, "Meet the Expert", there have been 47 of those. We do one a month, providing free training for people. So actually, 47 different topics. There is so much valuable content from amazing experts, 46 different people because one person has done it twice.

So yes, you can look through just that one course and gain so much training for free. There are also pro bono courses that we want to support and help, so people have access to those.

Key Shifts in Recruitment Over the Last Five Years

Lydia: Angela, what are some significant shifts that you've seen maybe in the recent years or in the past five years since Recruiting Gym has been set up?

Angela: It’s one of the reasons why I love the recruitment industry. I've been in it just over 35 years now, so there have been lots of ups and downs, twists and turns, and there's always something new. I think the last five years have probably seen the biggest shift in the recruitment industry.

I was using things like Skype ten or twelve years ago, I was doing a lot of work in Australia. Sometimes I was there in person, but otherwise, I was running webinars at 10, 11, or even 2 in the morning. Skype was ideal for that. So, we were using that type of technology to go global before the pandemic, but it wasn’t widely accepted.

Then, when 2020 happened, people were forced to adopt it, and they realized, "Actually, I can do a lot of this remotely." Certainly, from my business and from the people I talk to, those initial conversations, the opportunity to ask questions, gather information, and understand a situation, no longer need to happen in person. We can do them over Zoom, Skype, Teams, Google Hangouts, or whichever platform you prefer.

That means we can speed up the process. We can quickly determine whether we’re likely to work together before committing to in-person meetings, which we always used to do. Now, we can gather a lot of information in just half an hour and then decide if we want to move forward. So, in that sense, technology has really helped us make connections we might not have made otherwise.

Of course, we’ve also become much more aware of mental health well-being, and neurodiversity. Those topics became a priority during that time, and I’m so glad to see that progress continue. There’s now technology available for virtual meetings that help maintain eye contact by keeping your focus on the camera, which can be a challenge for many people. If you’re neurodiverse, maintaining eye contact can be especially difficult, so having that kind of support is incredibly valuable.

Then we have AI and automation, and ChatGPT, for example. We’ve really delved into that to explore its potential for the future.

One development that really sums up how the last five years have pushed the recruitment industry forward is a restaurant in Japan that employs paraplegics as servers. Just think about that for a moment. Paraplegics, who don’t have use of their arms or legs, work as servers in a restaurant. How does that work? They control robot servers from their beds using only their mouths. How amazing is that?

From a disability inclusion standpoint, the advancements we’ve made in helping people enter the workforce and reach their full potential have spread far and wide. That means we’ve opened up our talent pools. If you’re not paying attention to diversity, equity, and inclusion in any way, shape, or form, you’re missing out—and you’re going to get left behind.

So, there wasn’t a short answer to that question because, in five years, so much has happened. But those are probably some of the key things that really excite me.

Lydia: It’s also interesting when you talk about that case in Japan because skills are not specific to a certain job anymore, and you can take them and put them into another job description. You can really cross those skills onto different jobs and see what happens. I mean, that's the whole idea behind evolution and innovation, in tech, right?

Angela: Exactly. We started with the Industrial Revolution and realized that the loom actually ended up creating more jobs. From a technological standpoint, the same thing happened with robots in car manufacturing. Yes, automation took some jobs away, but it also created so many more when the car industry expanded.

So, we need to look at AI and automation in the same positive way, what other opportunities can this generate? Ideally, AI and automation will take over repetitive and administrative tasks.

For example, if you're running a temp desk, there could be as many as 27 pieces of documentation that need to be completed just to get someone out working, even if it's only for a four-hour shift and that’s just to ensure they get paid. Think about all the opportunities for things to go wrong.

We've all been there. If you've worked in recruitment, you’ve experienced situations where the process didn’t work, something got missed, and someone didn’t get paid; all because of human error. But with automation, the likelihood of those mistakes happening decreases significantly, which can only be a good thing. Plus, everything happens so much faster.

So, we need to embrace these advancements and make sure we’re utilizing them for good.

Supporting Growth While Staying Competitive

Lydia: So, Angela, coming back to Recruiting Gym and the way it works. It's a community that's based on sharing and encouraging growth between one another. So how do you balance maybe protecting the community or every member in that community protecting their competitive advantage while you encourage that kind of open sharing with one another?

Angela: We always premise it with: you share what you're happy to share. So, the onus is on the individual, and we certainly wouldn’t push them to share anything they’re not comfortable with.

I mentioned the team network earlier, so let me explain that because I think it’s a good answer to this. TEAM, as I said, consists of around 800 companies that are SMEs, some are solopreneurs, while others are slightly larger. They came together a good 30 years ago to take on the big corporates. At the time, they were losing business to national firms. If we look at the UK, where they’re based, I worked for Blue Arrow, which had 75 locations across the country, we were always aiming for those large contracts that could bring business to every branch, but all those individual recruiters were losing out.

That’s why TEAM was formed. It stands for The Employment Agents Movement. The idea was to bring these businesses together to share jobs and support each other. Even though they might be competitors, they collaborate on job placements, ensuring that opportunities don’t go to waste. After all, 50% of a placement is better than 0%.

What we’ve now identified is that collaboration and support within our industry can take us much further than trying to go it alone. Yes, there will be times when you’re up against a competitor, but if we can support each other and help each other improve the entire industry benefits.

Lydia: Yes. A community like that definitely brings its advantages and benefits that we wouldn't expect working by ourselves. Have there been any unexpected benefits that members have discovered through this community participation?

Angela: I think one of the key things is that, as a team, we’ve ended up reflecting that same collaborative approach. So, although I represent the Recruiting Gym, we also have Alex Moyle, the founder, and Charlotte handling sales and marketing. The rest of the team consists of Associates, 12 trainers and coaches from around the world who, yes, run their own businesses but come together as a team.

We collaborate in the same way, working on big projects and supporting each other. We have a team WhatsApp group where we share messages daily, offering support especially during tough times. When new projects come up, we discuss them together and decide who wants to take them on. For example, Renuka Gundala, Clare Davis, and I are working on a competency-based interviewing project for a large global company.

We work in different team formations, but every month, we all come together for a team meeting to share knowledge, exchange information, and support each other.

An unexpected benefit for our members is that they’re not just getting one or two trainers. They have access to a whole team of experts of trainers, coaches, management consultants, branding specialists, pricing strategists, DE&I experts, and mental health and well-being professionals. It’s not just about recruitment training or leadership and management training; it’s a holistic approach.

That’s what we’ve wanted from the start. So that, no matter what challenges our clients face, we have a team that can help. And even if we don’t have the right person immediately, our network does. That was the case with one client who needed a Spanish-speaking trainer based in Mexico. We didn’t have one on our team, but our network did, so we made it happen. Now, I’m working with trainers in France and Germany.

And if anyone knows someone in South Korea, I’d love to talk to you! But apart from that, I think we’ve got everything else covered now.

Balancing AI and Human Interaction in Recruitment

Lydia: This kind of collaboration, the many different ideas that come in, the collective exposure that comes together, have there been any new recruitment methodologies,  or approaches that have maybe emerged from these discussions?

Angela: Yes, we’ve got two team members who run AI courses, and I suppose this is where the real change is happening. Now, we’re seeing avatars or buddies, whatever you want to call them, become part of the recruitment process.

Two years ago, we were very much saying, “Wait a minute, we need human interaction.” But one of the biggest struggles in our industry has always been keeping candidates and clients up to date, and that’s something that gives us a bad reputation.

Now, we have avatars integrated into training platforms and CRMs, helping to bridge that gap. They can ask, “How can I help you?” or “What support do you need?” A candidate or client can ask a question, and the avatar can pull up relevant updates. For example, it might say, “The last conversation with the client was yesterday morning, and there wasn’t an update at that point. We’re still chasing them for you.”

The possibilities here are endless. Ideally, the consultant should have called the candidate yesterday to provide that update, even if there was nothing new to report because “nothing’s happening” is still an update. But if that step was missed, an avatar can step in to ensure the candidate stays informed. That’s a huge benefit.

Before the recruitment process even begins, automation can also help manage thousands of applications. An AI system could guide candidates through the process, showing how many people have applied, how many have similar skills, and even their percentage match to the role.

This means candidates with only a 20% match who are applying to everything will get immediate feedback that they’re not a strong fit, rather than waiting and wondering. They won’t take rejection personally because they’ll understand that they don’t meet the requirements.

However, there’s also a major issue we’ve discussed: people using AI to apply for jobs on their behalf. Now, AI is not only generating applications but also submitting them. Meanwhile, AI avatars are responding to those applications and sending updates. If this continues unchecked, we could end up in a situation where AI is interviewing AI, robots talking to robots.

Without human interaction in the process, this could go very wrong. We need to be mindful of how far we let automation take over.

The Power of Community in the Recruitment Industry

Lydia: Angela, you've had more than 30 years in this space, and you obviously, as you've shared quite extensively, you've seen so many of these changes taking place. So for those who are starting out in the recruitment space today, what advice would you give them?

Angela: I run a program of interviews called My Life in Recruitment, and we've actually done it on stage at two Recruitment Agency Expos at the NEC. In this program, we invite people with a minimum of 20 years of experience to share the good, the bad, and the ugly of our industry, so people are aware of what their recruitment life might be like.

I also ask them to answer, “What’s the one piece of advice you’d give to someone joining now?” or “What would you have liked to have been told back at the beginning?” From my point of view, one key piece of advice is to surround yourself with wonderful, positive people you can learn from and not think you know it all. Again, back to the community, right? Everything connects.

I did a talk for Alex many years ago for only 10 minutes, and the slides moved every 30 seconds. I forget what it’s called, but I ended up talking about all the people who had an impact on my life and helped me get to where I am. Not surprisingly, since I joined recruitment in the ‘80s when it was 90% women in the UK recruitment industry, those women were the ones who had the biggest impact on my career. Starting with the very first person who interviewed me when I walked in the door, she spotted my potential and brought me into the industry.

In fact, I just did a week-long conference running for 100 of her top managers in India. So, you never know where those connections will take you. That was an amazing experience in Ahmedabad.

Having an active network, working on it, giving back, sharing, paying it forward, whatever terms you want to use, without expectation, is crucial. You really need to develop your network. They say your network is your net worth, and I truly believe that in recruitment. These individuals can have such a big impact on what happens in your life.

As I mentioned with our WhatsApp group, when things get tough, it’s so wonderful to have those positive, supportive people there to just listen to you when you need it, or to offer advice that can help you move forward. Sometimes it’s advice you might already know, but you need to hear it again to take it on board.

That’s one of the best things you can do in recruitment. You’ll learn, develop, grow, and have opportunities keep coming your way because of it. So, in a way, that covers quite a few of the important points.

Lydia: Indeed. As someone who's starting out in recruitment, you'll have all these different ideas of how to approach specific task at hand, and perhaps listening to a mentor or even having a community might give you that validation that you need like “Is this the right way to do it?” As you said, it's indeed a very powerful experience to have all these people in your entire career still standing by you, and in the end, you're still looking back to the value that they've given to you as a recruiter.

So thank you so much for your time and your insights, Angela. This has been great. For those who are listening in, of course, those who may have known you in the course of their careers as well, may want to contact you, where can they find you?

Angela: All the social media channels at Recruiting Gym, also the podcasts, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter or X and LinkedIn is probably the best place. So I'm Angela Cripps at Recruiting Gym on there. My email is angela@recruitinggym.com, feel free to email me or connect with me, and please do put a message if you can. A reference, so that that's another tip as well, I must admit, for myself, my role is recruitment, so I do only accept applications and connection requests from people that are in the recruitment industry or have a connection, they could be a supplier to the recruitment industry, because I know that I can support them as well.

So make sure that your profile says exactly who you are and if you haven't got it in your title, you've got quite a few characters on there that you can use. So make sure that it's clear who are you and what do you do so people can connect. I’m happy to do that.

Lydia: Great. Thanks again, Angela, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show, and we have been in conversation with Angela Cripps, MD of Recruiting Gym. Thank you for joining us, and remember to subscribe to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All In Recruitment.