EP102: OQ - How to Determine Talent’s Skill Transferability

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

‍This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.

My name is Lydia, and with us today is Chibundu Nnorom from OQ. Welcome to the show, Chibundu, and thank you for joining us.

Chibundu: Thank you very much. A pleasure to be on your show today. Thank you.

The Ever Changing Landscape of Recruitment

Lydia: So, tell us a little bit about your role at OQ. You've been in the renewables or the energy sector for some years now and what might be some areas that you've prioritized?

Chibundu: Thank you, Lydia. Essentially, my role involves overseeing Talent Acquisition strategy development and implementation for OQ. This includes identifying the right talent for OQ Connective Energy and considering factors such as cost, timing, and quality.

Additionally, I analyze current trends and leverage data to make informed decisions on improving our overall outlook and attracting candidates to OQ. I also monitor our competitors’ practices and aim to enhance our competitive advantage.

Lydia: We were talking during pre-show about some of the trends that you've seen so far, and how the sector is moving in terms of Talent Acquisition. So, what might be some trends that you've noticed in the recent past, at least coming out of the pandemic period? How has the landscape for talent changed?

Chibundu: The landscape has changed significantly. We’re witnessing a transition from legacy energy sources to renewables, which brings its own complexities. Identifying candidates with the right skill sets is increasingly important.

Additionally, technological disruptions are occurring, and candidates now recognize their value. Negotiating with candidates has become more interesting, especially for hybrid or remote roles.

When there’s a skill gap, organizations must address candidates’ needs through a comprehensive reward system. Without this, attracting top talent becomes challenging. The future holds intriguing possibilities.

Lydia: Absolutely, and the energy sector itself is going through a period of transformation. It's also a very important topic in terms of global concern.

So, what are some expectations that candidates might have top of mind when they come in and explore roles within the sector today?

Chibundu: So, if you generally paid attention to the concluded COP that was held in review, we could clearly see that there has been a lot of commitment from world leaders and organizations. The focus is going to be really centered around renewables, and less investment in legacy systems. Of course, with all these changes, as a reasonable candidate, you might be worried about what the future holds for you. But I think it's not something to be alarmed about. It's more about you understanding or looking at these trends and leveraging the insights from this time to prepare yourself.

For me, what I say to people is to do a self-assessment of where you are today. Look at the skills you have today and ask yourself ,“Are these skills transferable in this industry? If they are not, how can I upskill to become relevant for the renewables industry?”

So, knowing that organizations are trying to find their footing within this industry, they are now more willing to focus on skill-based hiring rather than experience. Not a lot of people have experience, for instance, in hydrogen production. We know that the wind space has been there for a while, but it's also a macro industry, or the solar industry, for instance, or even areas like e-fuel.

Organizations are looking at who has the skills that fit what we're looking to do, and they are willing to grow with the individual. So, the important thing here is to do that self-assessment, and then also put yourself at the forefront of these changes in terms of upskilling and improving yourself, or reskilling in the sense where you have the skills already, but maybe they need sharpening to prepare yourself for the challenges ahead.

Define Your Good-to-Haves and Must-Haves

Lydia: That's a great point because, in terms of a recruiter looking at a sector or rather a talent needs in a sector that is moving towards a different phase altogether, they might also be looking at new types of roles, new names, or different kinds of approaches towards a role that has been there already. Maybe you need a different skill, as you said.

So, from a recruiter's perspective, how might they be able to approach effectively, newer roles that come their way?

Chibundu: Of course, there are new job titles popping up here and there these days. Some organizations are still trying to determine what their statuses will be. But I think for those who have been able to get the titles ready and also look at the projects they have in place, or all the growth aspirations they have and all that, things are clearer. For instance, principal electrolysis—some of the roles that are more pronounced are sometimes called principal, or manager for hydrogen production. It depends. All these nomenclatures are just popping up, but I think it's important for us as recruiters to pay attention to the skills.

If your attention is more skill-centric, that will help you alleviate any fear about what the titles are called. You know that these are the specific skills that the business is looking for. One other thing that I think is important is in the conversation you're going to be having in job interviews with the hiring manager. Make sure the good-to-haves and the must-haves are clearly defined.

Once you have all those, and of course, side by side with the competency framework that your organization has in place, it's easier for you to source those kinds of candidates.

Now, with the advent of generative AI, if you input the right competencies, you get the right responses. It makes your work easier. For instance, LinkedIn has also introduced AI in terms of how you source. If you input the right skills, the AI gives you feedback on candidates who have this skill set. You then just have to do your proper filtering to find the specific ones that meet what you're looking for and what the hiring manager may be interested in seeing. I think this is a quick win for us, if I may say that.

Lydia: In terms of assessing these candidates for potential, going back to what you said about nice-to-haves versus must-have, so and so, we're also looking at matching those skills with potential roles in the future that might require those skills that are not immediately a must-have.

So, in terms of assessing these candidates, or potential, what might be some strategic ways for recruiters or even leaders to do this?

Chibundu: So first off, if you're going to be assessing potential. For me, I think the conversation first just keeps you from ensuring that whatever potential you are assessing should be in alignment with the skill set within your framework.

There should also be behaviors that are central to the organization because, it's one thing to hire people with the right skills, but if their behaviors are not consistent with the organization, then there's a mismatch, and we're going to have problems.

In your assessments, I think what we will do is leverage a very structured approach in terms of how we assess candidates. For instance, apart from the functional competencies of the individual, the behaviors as well are something we assess. For example, if you put the right programs or initiatives in place to close those gaps, you can come back to the assessment tools you use as well. Leveraging the assessment tools in a very structured manner, for instance, you can use the same model to test specifically if they have demonstrated these things in the last few years they've been working.

Some of the situation, task, action, result is a very useful tool that I have seen time and time again give very objective evidence to assessments.

Artificial Intelligence as a Collaborative Tool

Lydia: In terms of technology, or the overall impact of technology, lots of this requires human input, as well in terms of analysis, etc.

How has technology made an impact on Talent Acquisition as a whole?

Chibundu: So, this is an interesting discourse because it takes me back to years when we had the partners' batches for assessments, and the trouble of moving everyone—assessors, candidates, everyone—to an assessment center. The exposures that came with that, flying from here and there, and the associated costs, all that was something daunting. The task of sorting assessments, segmenting batches of candidates to ensure safety standards, and determining who was successful was difficult to manage.

But today, we have technology. Technology has helped us a lot. Now we have online assessments and AI-powered Applicant Tracking Systems. You can sit in the comfort of your office, and these systems can screen candidates for you. They help filter candidates and identify those who have a high potential of succeeding in your assessments. Conversion rates have improved, and we are seeing candidate satisfaction and hiring manager satisfaction improve as well. All this progress is because of technology.

Another significant change we're seeing is that candidates can now sit in the comfort of their homes, in their beds, wherever they are, and apply for jobs online. We can post jobs on LinkedIn and social media, and candidates can set notifications for new job postings. They can quickly click on their devices and apply easily, depending on how the organization is set up on LinkedIn.

These are the tremendous benefits that technology has brought to the forefront for us in the TA space. Quick turnaround, improved efficiency, and increased effectiveness are all results of this technological advancement. We will see incremental improvements as we move forward.

Lydia: It's getting more and more complex to differentiate or to split AI from the overall technology stack that you have for Talent Acquisition, I mean, almost everything is infused with AI technology. So, in terms of the usage of AI in recruitment operations, I know you've mentioned a few earlier already. But what value it brings to a recruiter and what does a recruiter gain from using Artificial Intelligence or even technology as a whole and getting more and more fluent in the usage of technology?

Chibundu: I know this is a worrying subject for a lot of us because of the impact it brings and the possibility that our jobs are at risk. But more and more, I think that AI, in a nutshell, is going to be a collaborative tool rather than something that takes away opportunities. It's just how you position yourself that really matters. I was listening to the CEO of LinkedIn recently talk about AI and the advent of the Internet and what people were worried about at the time when the Internet was introduced. What we've seen now is that the Internet has become a key part of our businesses, our lives in general, and all that. It's become more of an integrated tool for us.

So, I think AI will be the same for recruiters. For instance, we as recruiters or people in the Talent Acquisition space, in the past, had the daunting task of doing due diligence on every application that dropped into the applicant tracking system we were using. Now we have AI that helps us filter and focus on the right angles. It gives us extra time to add value by partnering more with the business, understanding challenges, and bridging gaps. It helps us improve satisfaction and we are seeing our conversion rates improve tremendously. There is a sense of trust in the business because they know we are more effective and efficient with the help of technology.

In the past, it took us a long time to fill roles—sometimes more than 120 days or even an entire year. Now, with technology, we are seeing shorter time-to-fill. For instance, my past average time to fill was 75 days for student hires. With this technology, we can guarantee hiring managers that, barring notice periods or other impacts, we can consider candidates in just a few days or months. These are the benefits we are seeing.

The worrying part is something we will understand better as time goes on, in terms of the impact on the job of a Talent Acquisition professional today or in the future. One thing I expect to happen is that organizations, especially in the TA space, will become leaner as we leverage technology more. But I want to highlight that recruiters will always be important. I was having a conversation recently with a recruiter and noticed a lack of authenticity in the conversation we were having. The feedback from her was something I picked up on. This is not news for many of us. The human interface is always important and will always be needed.

Lydia: So, your immediate perception of that, I mean, as a candidate or as the other person on the receiving end, getting the sense that it might all be conducted by AI, what was your immediate perception of them?

Chibundu: My immediate perception of that is to be really candid. Uncertainty is I would love an authentic conversation, where I talk with an individual, rather than chatbots because that's the way an individual speaks. I understand AI in the future, with machine learning and all that, AI will become better in terms of understanding emotion and all the corresponding effects.

But today, that human feel is not there. I think there will be distrust between candidates and the organization trying to hire them. It's because how can I see what you're saying? It's really what's going to happen because it just is a program responding to and that's something to worry about. I think one of the things you can do is; I know that there's a whole lot of us who have goals and targets, so, we're sending messages to candidates when things are very good, or having the skill set or meeting so and so, and guarantee that they will not respond back to us.

So, I know that we're sending out inventory, AI helps you to expedite that process and get more responses and try to get more feedback and all that. But I think where we then have a win is when we have the preliminary call. Trying to understand how the candidate fits in that sense of comfort to then come back when we have this conversation and you can hear clearly that it is not the type of stuff and as a human being talking and data share with candidates as well, I think that way would have been.

Lydia: That would, in some way, influence the kind of future that we see for recruitment in the coming years, or in the next couple of years even. So, the the ability to take your human element and make technology work for you in that sense is also going to be very critical in terms of really understanding what kind of technology are playing with.

But on that note, what would you say might be the role of a Talent Acquisition Professional in the advent of technology? So, there is that human element, that expert knowledge that comes into play when dealing with a candidate or when strategizing, etc. So, with the help of technology, with all those foundational elements being taken care of by technology and AI, what might be the role of a Talent Acquisition Professional?

Chibundu: So generally, I think if you become more strategy-focused, if I think about it in terms of developing the overall kind of vision and strategy and even with your personalized and operationalizing, of course, AI will play a huge role in your practice. But somebody has to be there to make those things happen.

So, I think my module TA person will be the key driver of that. Organizations are not just going to leverage this AI like the post office box, but there has to be someone who wants to take accountability for the deliveries. So, having those difficult conversations, sharing the time longer than expected, and understanding exactly what the business needs.

Every hiring manager wants to hire themselves and sometimes they want to buy a Porsche with a budget for something even smaller. So, there's that perspective we bring in terms of market intelligence to say that what you've told me is the Porsche and what I have in my arsenal to identify this person is not going to be enough for a Porsche.

This is what the organization had provided and this is what is possible, and you share those insights. That is where we become relevant. So, in terms of strategy, that's where you screen on.

Lydia: That is also a market intelligence element. I think that is critical and making sure that the use of technology and data, turns them into intelligence. So, it's how that data is being used and being analyzed, right?

Chibundu: Someone should be able to translate those insights. All the nice things that the AI has helped to generate, somebody is supposed to tell the business, “This is where we are and this is the information we have. This is where we're going to be in the next few years and this process is going to somebody who has to also give the leadership organization that we've invested. These insights that we began with Ghana, from reviewing all the data that's here, and then you check in trends, and all that are things that we can bring to the table to have this conversation. That's how we become very strategic business partners to business.

Transformative Journeys That Inspire Growth and Innovation

Lydia: Chibundu you’ve also spent time as a recruiter yourself, and you reference a time when you had to go through physical applications. So, I'm sure you've had one, or maybe several favorites or, some recruitment stories that are really close to your heart.

So, what might be your favorite recruitment story that you can remember right now?

Chibundu: I think one of the ones that really comes to my mind is the feedback that I recently received. Just about the period when things opened up again, and it was business after the pandemic. I had hired someone from South Africa, for Sasol at the time, and I also helped the person.

It was a period of people trying to determine, "Oh, should I be moving with all these changes that have happened?" and all that. I helped this individual make a decision around their career, and it was going to be a growth for them. Eventually, I got this very amazing response in terms of sharing their story on LinkedIn how I have helped them move from one organization to another, and how it has helped them in terms of elevation their career. Generally, how I managed them through that process, in terms of their candidate experience and all that.

I felt a sense of pride. It was something that gave me comfort and encouragement that I was doing the right thing. For me, that's one of the stories. And a few other stories have popped up recently. For instance, grades that I hired in my past or my previous job grew in that organization, and just the fact that they have grown into leaders in the organization, it's something I'm very proud of. I think this role gives you the opportunity to beat your chest any day to say, "Yes, I'm making a difference in the world.”

Lydia: Yes, that makes that makes it all worthwhile.

Chibundu: Absolutely.

Lydia: The back and forth and going back through the hiring manager, sharpening [your skills]. The whole works.

Chibundu: Absolutely. Because if you look at it, generally, it's quite liquidized. It's not always amazing. There are some very difficult conversations you have with some difficult hiring managers—that kind of experience as well. But then there are also very difficult candidates.

You kick off the process and you're excited about bringing the candidate, and suddenly they change their mind. Or sometimes they take your offer and present it to the organization where they're currently working to get a raise. It seems like you wasted everybody’s time, and you have to start all over again because they canceled the vacancy. All these things are counting against you in terms of efficiency and effectiveness. So, all those things.

But when you look back to the stories that really encourage the value you are bringing to the organization, the value of being in people's lives, and not to say the money. In fact, one of the best stories that I used to enjoy in the past when I was in graduate recruitment was seeing the way the candidates screamed when I made the offer to them. It's that literal joy. That you are really excited because, again, someone's life has been changed. I know that, and they're going to be kicking off their career in a big multinational company.

Lydia: Those are really useful interesting pain points where we often don't really speak about the difficulties or those little moments when you don't quite make it, or other failures if you want to call it that.

When you go up there and you've put in all the work, and yet it doesn't follow through. Then you've got to answer to different people, and how do you keep a mindset that keeps you focused and how do you approach these difficult conversations?

Chibundu: I've been in the Talent Acquisition space for a while, you would have had a few, right? And what that helps you to do is to know how to manage the expectations of these hiring managers. For instance, in cases where you had rejections or cases where you were close to onboarding the individual, what I've found very handy is to ensure that I always have somebody in the pool who can quickly plug that vacuum once it occurs.

So, we try to have at least two or three backups even where we don't have that. Okay, there has to be that conversation. It's difficult, but you have to have it. This is the reason.

For me, one of the things I say to hiring managers when we start off the process is to have the mindset that this is an opportunity for us to hire people, not to disqualify them. It changes how the conversation goes. If you're having an assessment and there's always this bias that stems from the fact that, "Oh, I've seen this perfect candidate, and this is the person I want," and for that reason, all the other candidates, while good, may not be at the level of that person.

You have that bias towards disqualifying them. What can we do the same thing that person would do? Yes, they may be able to do that. So, when you have this conversation before the assessment to see, let us look for an opportunity to hire rather than disqualify, let's do it this way. Think of having a backup in the event that something falls through. And so all that healthy conversation, and when it's difficult when these things don't happen, you tell the hiring manager, these things happen. This is the market. The market is competitive. There are companies like profit. There are organizations that are out in the market.

I'll give an example. I was hired to look for Principal Electrolysis candidates and I found them quickly about the time we were trying to have my personality coach and he told me what he wanted. Then about the time when we both got to the offer stage, the candidate to counter with a big multinational as well, better than what I was offering. He says, “I’m sorry. I really want to join you guys but I have this work where I don't even have to move from my home country. I can stay in my own country to get this job instead.” That changed the conversation. It felt like I wasted time with the hiring manager. But I told him, “This is the reality.” And so, how much talent do we have? It’s quite a narrow pool of candidates. Everybody thinks they get their hands into the cookie jar and will get the cookies. Whoever reach in and pick first, and gives the best offer, is who the candidates will go to. So I said, “Let’s go back. I think we are going to find more people.”

Lydia: That’s the kind of challenge that needs to be tactfully handled. It requires a lot of tact and depends on the perspective taken to make it as smooth sailing as possible—not as disruptive as people might envision. It’s not all doom and gloom.

Perhaps there’s another chance to look at things differently. Your anecdote clearly shows us that. Thank you so much for sharing those great anecdotes and insights today. If anyone listening wants to contact you or continue the conversation, where can they find you?

Chibundu: Thank you very much. This has been a very amazing opportunity for me as well to share what I know within the TA space. I also want to say that you can always connect with me on LinkedIn. My name is Chibundu Nnorom. I think we don’t have a lot of people with that name.

You can always connect with me and I share insights from time to time on TA. I provide advice to people who needs them or candidates who are trying to transition into new roles. I'm looking forward to connecting with as many as possible who wants to have a chat with me about that.

And of course, I also post jobs from time to time, based on the needs of the organizations. So, thank you very much, and have a great day.

Lydia: We have been in conversation with Chibundu Nnorom from OQ. Thank you for joining us and remember to subscribe to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All-In Recruitment.