EP37: Amazon - Delivering Results in Technical Recruitment (With Jonathan Kidder)

All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.

This week we sit down with Jonathan Kidder, Senior Technical Recruiter at Amazon, to discuss his journey into technical recruitment and his experience recruiting for Amazon. We also touch on the importance of diversity and inclusion in recruitment efforts, the impact of AI on recruitment, and the importance of continuous learning in the field. Tune in to learn more about the industry.

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Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

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Lydia: Welcome to the All-In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you enjoy our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify, and stay tuned for weekly episodes.

I'm your host, Lydia, and with us today is Jonathan Kidder, Senior Technical Recruiter Level III, L6, at Amazon.

Great to have you with us today, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Jonathan's Journey Into Recruiting

Lydia: Could you walk us through your background in technical recruitment? How did you come to nurture and cultivate your expertise in this area?

Jonathan: Like many in our field, I fell into recruiting. I went to school for communications and marketing. I love talking to people on the phone and in person, doing presentations. After I graduated from university, I got a role in marketing communications as an intern at a staffing company called AGS, or Allegiance Mobile Solutions. I went right into employer branding, communication, and social media, and I loved my experience there.

I sat next to a recruiting team, and I would listen in on phone calls and conversations. I was like, "Wow, what are they doing? They're sourcing, they're talking to people, prospecting for leads." I just fell into it.

So, I reached out to my manager at the time, asking if I could learn more about sourcing and become a recruiter. That's how it all started, about 12 years ago. It's been a good experience so far.

I was able to connect with many different senior-level recruiters at the time and sit next to them in my career to grow. So, finding a mentor is number one, someone more senior than you whom you can listen to and learn from. You start to learn about searching, Boolean, and everything else. But finding a mentor is key - someone you can go to and listen to their conversations, and then go from there.

Lydia: Can you tell us about your experience recruiting for technical roles at Amazon?

Jonathan: I've been at Amazon for almost four and a half years, and it's been a great experience. Mostly, I've been focusing on software engineering and IT leadership-based roles. It was very challenging during the peak of COVID as the market was highly competitive. There were lots of external competitors, so being able to network and use all my tactics and tools to find the best candidates was crucial.

In addition to sourcing externally, I learned how to do talent mapping. This involved looking at data and labor analytics from different countries across the globe, which was vital. In fact, I even wrote a book about talent mapping, where I explained the importance of using data and analytics to create a sourcing strategy or plan.

Lydia: Representing Amazon, I would imagine it's challenging since it's a big company and almost everyone recognizes the brand. Is that true?

Jonathan: Well, for us, we are one of the largest TA teams in the US and North America. So when you think about it that way, there's more internal competition between different teams and networking, and everyone's going for the same talent. We have to be very creative with how we personalize our messaging, how we communicate with candidates externally, and how we use our hiring managers to broadcast our message online. It's actually quite the opposite because there's so much competition. The pool of talent hasn't really grown much, even internationally. So, there aren't enough people with these niche skills or experiences. Therefore, competition is even higher.

Ensuring Diversity and Inclusion in Technical Role Recruitment Efforts

Lydia: So, when you look for candidates for niche roles, what are some key qualities you look for besides skills?

Jonathan: I really focus on where they went to school and their educational background, especially the fundamentals of technical roles. Where they graduated and their level of certification are also crucial. We prioritize the fundamentals for long-term success in the tech field.

Lydia: With the pandemic, how did it impact your recruitment strategies for technical roles?

Jonathan: What happened was that everyone was remote, and many teams and departments were local before. But now, since everyone is fully remote, it has opened doors for opportunities across the globe. It has made things more competitive because I can look for candidates in places like Michigan or Minnesota rather than just focusing on the Bay Area. I realized that I could get cheaper salary compensation in the Midwest.

This rise in competition is why salaries have become much more competitive and higher. This was mainly due to everyone being remote during the pandemic.

Lydia: Have you experienced any notable successes or challenges you'd like to share?

Jonathan: For me, 2021 to 2022 was an amazing year. In Tech recruiting, we were hiring and organizing many events while working with several managers. There was extreme growth, and I was hiring for many different roles, including international ones in South America and Europe, among other places. I had many opportunities to grow, meet hiring managers, and help grow our teams internally as well. Overall, it was a great time.

Lydia: What steps do you take to ensure diversity and inclusion in your recruitment efforts for technical roles?

Jonathan: It is important to prioritize diversity when sourcing talent, which is why I wrote a book called 'A Guide to Diversity Talent Sourcing.' The book breaks down the fundamentals of looking for diverse candidates online. It can be challenging to find diverse candidates because they do not always indicate their gender, race, or nationality on their resumes or social media profiles.

It is also essential to look at other indicators such as non-profit connections, association groups, universities, schools, or specific locations to target diverse candidates.

My current team tracks all candidates coming through our process, and we have internal goals to hit, particularly when it comes to gender and diverse candidates. Bringing in a diverse pool of candidates is critical for our team.

Lydia: Earlier, you mentioned a period of growth and mass hiring with plenty of competition for the right talent. However, we also need to consider the impact of layoffs, which have taken place recently.

As a recruiter, going through such a period requires effective communication to manage the situation. Could you describe what this experience is like and the impact it has on you as a recruiter?

Jonathan: In recruiting, there are ups and downs, and currently, we seem to be in the middle. The economy is not performing very well, and we have other global uncertainties like the banking situation and the Ukraine war. Many companies are hesitant to hire due to the many unknowns surrounding the economy.

Uncertainty is a challenge for any company in North America or internationally. I have spoken to many recruiters, and they all seem to have the same question - what do we do? We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the economy.

The Impact of AI in Recruitment: Optimizing the Process and Making it More Efficient

Lydia: When there's redundancy like this, how do you prepare to hire again?

Jonathan: I'd say it's all about pipelining. You could focus on diversity hiring or niche skill sets. If you've recruited for similar roles in the past, it's a great opportunity to pipeline by adding people to projects or Excel sheets and keeping them warm. Once you're active again, you can take that list and reach out to those people, saying, "Hey, I know we connected three or four months ago. Are you active now?" I'm doing the same thing on my end.

Lydia: To pipeline in this way and even forecast business needs, you have to stay up to date with trends and developments in technical recruitment. How do you do that?

Jonathan: There are many different sites like TechCrunch and Mashable that I subscribe to for staying updated on trends. I also look at my competition to see what's happening at companies like Meta and Google. Additionally, I recommend getting certifications if you're really focused on IT. There are many different courses available online to help you be a better recruiter. The more you know about a topic, the more accurately you can present yourself and talk about roles.

Lydia: Technical recruitment involves assessing culture fit. How do you go about doing that?

Jonathan: Many companies create a leadership stance through their mission statement, EVP summaries, and leadership principles. Taking all of these into account is crucial throughout your recruitment process. At Amazon, we have leadership principles that we interweave into our process. When we talk to candidates, we assess whether they are customer-obsessed, have a bias for action, and deliver results.

We are proud to incorporate our leadership principles and culture from day one of the processes. As a recruiter, it is essential to examine your company's mission statement and summaries and integrate them into your intake, phone screens, and interview process. This way, you can ensure that the candidates you bring in not only have the skills for the job but are also an excellent cultural fit that aligns with your leadership principles.

Lydia: Moving on to the use of technology in different sectors, especially in recruitment, what are your thoughts on the impact of AI?

Jonathan: I'm excited about the impact of AI on recruitment and many other industries. ChatGPT has launched a new era into recruiting, and while some recruiters are nervous, others are optimistic about the new tools and implications. ChatGPT can be used for updating and optimizing job descriptions, rewriting summaries, mission statements, and even social media or outreach.

Using ChatGPT to rewrite and optimize outreach messages can be impactful for reaching out to software engineers, which is a very competitive field. In the future, AI tools may be used to source leads or prospects and automate the process of scheduling or getting feedback.

Ultimately, AI will optimize the recruiting process and make it more efficient. It won't remove recruiters from the process, but instead, make them more human. By automating mundane tasks, recruiters can focus on building more relationships and preparing candidates for the entire experience, creating a human connection with them. Humans crave connection, and everything in life is about connecting with others. In the recruitment process, humans will still be interwoven, and AI will help automate tasks that were once done manually.

Importance Of Continuous Learning In Recruitment

Lydia: Jonathan, what advice would you give to someone who is starting out in recruitment today?

Jonathan: I would say keep learning and don't get stuck in one area. Our industry is always changing, so it's important to take courses, get certified, and do everything you can outside of your nine-to-five role. This will be essential for your long-term success in the field, too. It's easy to get sucked in and focus on one particular area of your role, such as just sourcing or just the process. But it's important to keep learning by reading books, attending conferences, and doing everything you can to make yourself a stronger recruiter in the long term.

Lydia: Thank you very much for your time, your insights, and the enthusiasm you brought to the field of recruitment. Your presentation was very valuable to our listeners, and I'm sure some of them will want to reach out to you. Where can they find you, maybe on LinkedIn?

Jonathan: Yes, they can go to my website, wizardsourcer.com. It's a talent-sourcing blog where I focus on trends and what's happening in the industry.

Lydia: Thank you, Jonathan. It's been a pleasure hearing your insights. We have been in conversation with Jonathan Kidder, Senior Technical Recruiter Level III, L6, at Amazon.

If you like our content, please feel free to subscribe to our channels and stay tuned for more insights from All-In Recruitment.

Thank you.